Difference between a good and a bad isp

Nowadays is there any decernable network performance between a good and a bad isp when using the Openreach FTTP network?

Historically in the days of adsl I saw quite a bit of discussion in regard to congestion on some isp's back haul connections, however not really heard much nowadays so was wondering if this is no longer an issue?

Nowadays are you just paying for the customer service with a premium ISP? or does the network actually perform better?

Openreach doesn't connect you to the internet, they connect you to the ISP. If the ISP decides to have 5 million customers and only a 10 Mbps connection to the internet, the fastest Openreach connection from the ISP to your home isn't going to make any difference, the internet connection is going to be rubbish.

So yes, worth reading reviews of ISPs and other people's comments on the forums.

What I've learnt from the Zen backhaul issue over the last month is that there is still a massive difference between a good and bad ISP using the Openreach FTTP network.

In reply to a post by dect:

What I've learnt from the Zen backhaul issue over the last month is that there is still a massive difference between a good and bad ISP using the Openreach FTTP network.

OK then, perhaps someone would care to list at least some of the better providers for FTTP?

In reply to a post by Ripley:

Nowadays are you just paying for the customer service with a premium ISP? or does the network actually perform better?

Openreach only control the access network, the tiny section between your home and exchange.
FTTC saw no contention for the vast majority of users between the FTTC DSLAM and the exchange. The rest was down to the ISP.
FTTP is the same. It's extremely unlikely you will see any contention/slow downs caused by the Openreach part of the link.

As others have pointed out the ISP controls everything beyond the exchange.
Whether you are connecting to a server/website 20 miles away, 500 miles away or 5000 miles away it will all go through your ISP. If the ISP are a bottleneck it could affect all traffic.
Your performance will also depend on what transit/peering agreements your ISP has in place for when you leave their network to the wider internet.

A lot of people assume that because it's full fibre then that must mean full speed 24/7 but that's a massive misconception.
Home broadband is a contended product. It's a shared, best efforts endeavour.
The only difference is that the connection speed doesn't degrade/decrease as distance to the exchange increases and latency and reliability should be a bit better.

Thanks John

So does the ISP have to rent a back haul link from every individual FTTP enabled exchange?

That depends...

They may have their own backhaul present (eg. Sky, Vodafone) or use a wholesale provider (eg TalkTalk or BT Wholesale) from the headend/parent exchange back to their own core network.

Interesting stuff.

How many parent / headend exchanges are there?

OK then, perhaps someone would care to list at least some of the better providers for FTTP?


Yes thoughts on this would be appreciated

Roughly 940 odd nationally...

A thread about them from a year or so ago:
https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/4670955-hand...

Don't forget there are now millions of homes that have non-Openreach fibre available via a few wholesalers and their associated retailers. Often symmetric speeds unlike Openreach products.

That's not including Virgin/O2.

In reply to a post by Ripley:

Nowadays are you just paying for the customer service with a premium ISP? or does the network actually perform better?

I think for the end user, us, its customer service. The ability to solve a problem, get OR to fix a problem. Or if there are problems with the ISP's own network then for them to admit it to you and let you leave the contract without charging a fee.

A bad ISP won't do anything, even when the problem is caused by their own network.

In reply to a post by Ripley:

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

OK then, perhaps someone would care to list at least some of the better providers for FTTP?

Yes thoughts on this would be appreciated

Does anyone ever agree on who they are? I tend to focus on avoiding the ones I hear really bad stories about

In reply to a post by dect:

Does anyone ever agree on who they are?

No because everyone has different criteria.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by dect:

Does anyone ever agree on who they are?

No because everyone has different criteria.

Indeed, for the same reason we all have different preferences for many things in life.

In reply to a post by bowdon:

In reply to a post by Ripley:

Nowadays are you just paying for the customer service with a premium ISP? or does the network actually perform better?

I think for the end user, us, its customer service. The ability to solve a problem, get OR to fix a problem. Or if there are problems with the ISP's own network then for them to admit it to you and let you leave the contract without charging a fee.

A bad ISP won't do anything, even when the problem is caused by their own network.

This....

I have a business grade line - I pay for it. It never slows down and it's only ever gone wrong once. I have a number I can call 24/7 and although I have the right to ring up and whinge at 3am I have never had to. My didn't know it was down until an engineer called me at 1am to say my line went down 29 minutes ago and he was on site wanting me to check the kit this end (I have a 4 hour fix time)

CS is one thing - and you get what you pay for but it's not always needed