would a new contract keep me on FTTC?

Not sure what to put in the subject box, and I was going to put this in the Plusnet section, but it may affect other people on broadband from other providers.

Now as I have said before I am on Plusnet FTTC and my contract runs for another 7 months, Plusnet have put an offer which is about 60p off what I am paying now if I go for an 18-month contract, now I know 60p is not much, but it would certainly help offset a bit of the rise that will happen in March, now for some questions.
(A) would that 18 months start from now, or would it be added on top of the 18 months I have now? If it is not added to what I have now, then it would to be honest just add another 12 months to my contract, which is what I would have wanted at the end of my contract in June.

(B) If I recontracted it would be on FTTC, does anyone think Plusnet would force me to FTTP in that contract as it is now availabkle here?

(C) would I be better staying as I am and waiting closer to the end of my contract and seeing if I can get something cheaper from another provider when I get to the end of my contract? At the moment now broadband does a 36Mb/s package for £20, it may go up a little in 7 months, but i don't think it will go up a lot, and it is a 12 months contract.

Cheers peeps.

It will start from the day you agree the new contract ... so an 11 month extension.

No, unlikely to move you to FTTP

I'm more confused why you don't want to move to FTTP given latency is usually lower and speeds more consistent.

The only real problem with FTTP is the minimum contracts tend to be longer, but that's something you agree when re-contracting, they can't just randomly extend it without your permission.

If you're in an FTTP priority exchange area with FTTP available then you can make any agreement you want with your ISP, but they cannot do anything that involves an order being raised to Openreach unless that's an FTTP order. So you cannot regrade, move from WLR3 to SOGEA etc.

If you are not on an FTTP priority exchange area then your ISP can order whatever they want. There are no forced moves to FTTP until service withdrawal starts, but I expect ISPs to start withdrawing copper services long before Openreach mandate it for reasons of taking advantage of promotions, reducing support costs, and being able to sell higher tier services.

If you aren't really concerned with speeds and are very price sensitive then have you considered tethering to your mobile?

There a few points here.

Plusnet couldn't change you to FTTP without explicitly asking you because you will currently have voice services with your FTTC and they currently don't offer voice on FTTP (unless that very recently changed).
They couldn't move you to FTTP without removing your voice service which they would need to explain to you.

Any new contract would start immediately.

There are a small number of exchanges (roughly 130? out of 5000+) that are "FTTP Priority Exchanges", with more exchanges being added frequently.
If someone is on an FTTP Priority Exchange and has FTTP available then ALL orders must be FTTP.
You wouldn't be able to recontract, change speed, change provider, order a new line etc, unless it was an FTTP order.
Anyone on said exchanges without FTTP available is unaffected.
The BT Wholesale checker tells you if you are on an FTTP Priority exchange or not.

TL;DR your new contract would start immediately and they won't move you to FTTP without asking you.

In reply to a post by alexatkin:

I'm more confused why you don't want to move to FTTP given latency is usually lower and speeds more consistent.

The only real problem with FTTP is the minimum contracts tend to be longer, but that's something you agree when re-contracting, they can't just randomly extend it without your permission.

Hassle of having it installed, which is one of the reason I will not have a smart meter and as you have put the long contracts. But mainly because I really don't want the hassle and also FTTC works for me, so why change if I don't have to?

I don't think i worded things right, I realise that they just can't come and change me over, for a start they have to have access to my house, but what I meant will they bug me to change?
I forgot about the voice line since I don't use, so yes because plusnet don't have digital voice it would be more difficult for them to push people to FTTP.
I don't know when the stop sell is here, I did have a link to a checker, but I can't find it now, I think it was 2023.

I had a feeling my new contract would start from now, but just wanted to make sure, so all it will do is add another 12 months to my contract.


@JPM, can't tether to mobile, too much stuff in the house uses the broadband, I did think about mobile broadband. When you say price sensitive, I just don't want to pay more than I really have to, which is why I thought about Now broadband after my contract ended, but in June next year will they be taking FTTC orders?

Maybe if Zzoomm offered a slower cheaper option I would go for them, even if it means hassle, prefer to give them my money than any of the large providers. But the minium they offer is 150Mb/s and that is £33 a month.

Cheers peeps for the answers, I will have a think about it over the weekend and then decide what to do and also do a bit of research

It doesn't take long to fit FTTP on a standard house, very often only around an hour. You may as well go FTTP now and your set for future upgrades.

IIRC the smart meter took about 20 minutes to fit.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Maybe if Zzoomm offered a slower cheaper option I would go for them, even if it means hassle, prefer to give them my money than any of the large providers. But the minium they offer is 150Mb/s and that is £33 a month.

Just on this point, a lot of these AltNets are not small family firms fighting against incumbents. Zzoomm for example are majority owned by Oaktree Capital, a US-based firm with $164bn in assets managed.

…indeed or Emirati, Saudi or Qatari money….

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

If someone is on an FTTP Priority Exchange and has FTTP available then ALL orders must be FTTP.
You wouldn't be able to recontract, change speed, change provider, order a new line etc, unless it was an FTTP order.

Openreach seem to have relaxed that somwehat, there are some 'FTTP Priority Exchange Dilution Rules' which state:

"Under the rules of the stop sell policy, end customers that already have an active GEA-FTTC or SOGEA service (any speed) will be allowed to change CP and keep their existing service as long as it is provided on either a GEA-FTTC 40/10 or SOGEA 40/10 service.

In support of this policy, end customers will also be able to modify the bandwidth from any speed to a GEA-FTTC 40/10 or SOGEA 40/10 service."

Seems to me that anyone currently using a xDSL/PSTN line who has FTTP available at their address needs to seriously consider getting FTTP installed/activated quite soon. Advice that I'm getting from my ISP is that voice over copper needs to be converted to VoIP without too much delay. Waiting and doing it in a rush could cause issues if having an active "landline" and retention of phone number is important to an end user.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Seems to me that anyone currently using a xDSL/PSTN line who has FTTP available at their address needs to seriously consider getting FTTP installed/activated quite soon. Advice that I'm getting from my ISP is that voice over copper needs to be converted to VoIP without too much delay. Waiting and doing it in a rush could cause issues if having an active "landline" and retention of phone number is important to an end user.

Sure it's good to plan things in enough time. Consider for balance however that your ISP is quite probably financially motivated through various Openreach incentives (no secret) to move you also 😄

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Sure it's good to plan things in enough time. Consider for balance however that your ISP is quite probably financially motivated through various Openreach incentives (no secret) to move you also 😄

I agree, in general that is probably true but in my case I don't have to have a voice service with them - FTTP broadband only is available although I'm sure they would like to continue providing me with a voice service

And Plusnet will allow you to move from ADSL/VDSL to FTTP and migrate the number to your own choice of VoIP provider.

They have confirmed that to me recently.

In reply to a post by MHC:

And Plusnet will allow you to move from ADSL/VDSL to FTTP and migrate the number to your own choice of VoIP provider.

They have confirmed that to me recently.

Cor Blimey!! Have the senior brass in BT Group had a bit of a moment. 😅

Looking at father-in-law and his services. We want to manage a migration to FTTP (currently 75Mbps FTTC) before it become mandatory as we are the closest at 200 miles and he has various care-line services &c. PN said that it will all work - arrange the FTTP to co-incide with a visit and migration to VoIP just before - still need planning in detail though. It will not save him much, but will avoid potential downstream hassle.

I'd want to get FTTP even if it's just to ensure no shenanigans happen with 'my' CBT port. With any luck I will have Lit Fibre available here just before Openreach goes live, and my plan is to sign up for Lit Fibre but also waste some money on a 1-month FTTP contract on an Openreach provider just to get everything physically in place. The idea is that if there's a fault that goes on for a while I can get something provisioned on the Openreach connection quickly and won't need an engineer appointment.

In reply to a post by MHC:

And Plusnet will allow you to move from ADSL/VDSL to FTTP and migrate the number to your own choice of VoIP provider.

They have confirmed that to me recently.

Does that apply if a user is still currently within a contract for PSTN voice and xDSL?

B.T.W. just noticed that the OP is not interested in voice issues...

The indication to me was I could start the process "now" for a migration in Jan/Feb time - contract renewal is next September and no mention of early termination.

I will probably overlap active ADSL with FTTP provision for approx. one month just to be certain of a continued internet connection - i.e ADSL and FTTP on the same account.

In reply to a post by MHC:

The indication to me was I could start the process "now" for a migration in Jan/Feb time - contract renewal is next September and no mention of early termination.

Now I understand why the folks are sticking with PN...

In reply to a post by jpm:

Just on this point, a lot of these AltNets are not small family firms fighting against incumbents. Zzoomm for example are majority owned by Oaktree Capital, a US-based firm with $164bn in assets managed.

I know Zzoom is not a small family firm and I know that it is supported by Oakrtree, I do my research I also know the CEO is Matthew Hare and he also started up Gigaclear. I realise that a installing a fibre network will need a lot of money, and it needs investment., it is a shame that it is a U.S company, but then Out of reach and BT shares are mostly owned by people in other countries. The British in the BT name these days is laughable.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

…indeed or Emirati, Saudi or Qatari money….

Same as Bloated Toad and Out of reach.

In reply to a post by neo_wales:

It doesn't take long to fit FTTP on a standard house, very often only around an hour. You may as well go FTTP now and your set for future upgrades.

IIRC the smart meter took about 20 minutes to fit.

I know how long it takes for fFTTP to be fitted, I was at a house when one was fitted, not Out of reach, but Gigaclear. It takes a hour if things go right. As for smart meters, I also know how long they take and they take longer than 20 minutes. It took longer than that when they fitted a new gas meter.

In reply to a post by tdw42:

Openreach seem to have relaxed that somwehat, there are some 'FTTP Priority Exchange Dilution Rules' which state:

"Under the rules of the stop sell policy, end customers that already have an active GEA-FTTC or SOGEA service (any speed) will be allowed to change CP and keep their existing service as long as it is provided on either a GEA-FTTC 40/10 or SOGEA 40/10 service.

In support of this policy, end customers will also be able to modify the bandwidth from any speed to a GEA-FTTC 40/10 or SOGEA 40/10 service."

i wonder why they have relaxed on that, seems very strange since they want to get people onto FTTP. Chatting to someone using BT broadband and they live in the area of the city where Out of reach FTTp have been for a couple of months, and they are getting a lot of emails from BT about changing to FTTP, they even had a phone call. Now that would annoy me, emails not so much, but phoning me would.
They are not changing as they are waiting for their contract to end, and they are going with Zzoomm.

I have still not made up my mind what to do yet, to wait until the end of my contract and recontract. I will think more about it later on.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Seems to me that anyone currently using a xDSL/PSTN line who has FTTP available at their address needs to seriously consider getting FTTP installed/activated quite soon. Advice that I'm getting from my ISP is that voice over copper needs to be converted to VoIP without too much delay. Waiting and doing it in a rush could cause issues if having an active "landline" and retention of phone number is important to an end user.

Makes no difference to me, I already use a VoIP system, there is no phone connected to my landline, in fact I can't even remember what the phone number is.

Good time to buy shares perhaps. Market rumours continue to swirl off a PE or infrastructure fund buyout.

Probably due to ofcoms charge controls on the 40/10 product to promote retail competition

Edited by deleted (Sun 04-Dec-22 12:32:08)

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Seems to me that anyone currently using a xDSL/PSTN line who has FTTP available at their address needs to seriously consider getting FTTP installed/activated quite soon. Advice that I'm getting from my ISP is that voice over copper needs to be converted to VoIP without too much delay. Waiting and doing it in a rush could cause issues if having an active "landline" and retention of phone number is important to an end user.

Makes no difference to me, I already use a VoIP system, there is no phone connected to my landline, in fact I can't even remember what the phone number is.

I think you mentioned that FTTP was available at your address? If so you are perhaps dependent on active D-Side copper pairs for a continuing VDSL connection during the short to medium term regardless of the voice situation...

In reply to a post by 4M2:

I think you mentioned that FTTP was available at your address? If so you are perhaps dependent on active D-Side copper pairs for a continuing VDSL connection during the short to medium term regardless of the voice situation...

Active-D? That is a vitamin supplement.

FTTP is available here by Zzoomm or Openreach, I will put openreach because what I normally call them upsets some people, but as I said above I don't really want FTTP, I see no benefit in it for me.
That is why I asked if I recontracted with Plusnet for another 18 months, would they push me to FTTP? Not bothered about voice, I have VoIP, not that I use that a lot these days.

In reply to a post by rogan8:

Probably due to ofcoms charge controls on the 40/10 product to promote retail competition

I see, I think

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Active-D? That is a vitamin supplement.

No avoid that, rather the joys of cod liver oil as a "natural" remedy!

In reply to a post by 4M2:

No avoid that, rather the joys of cod liver oil as a "natural" remedy!

Sorry, I still have no idea what you are on about when you say Active D

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

As for smart meters, I also know how long they take and they take longer than 20 minutes.

Adrian

For heaven's sake. You keep on about your personal situation overlaid with your own personal prejudices and follow up with anecdotal comments about friends of yours. This is a very small sample size if you could lift your head up just a little and see that there is a wider world than the very narrow orbit which seems to span your restricted view. If it is such a limited horizon, why do you think anyone with a broader view will have the slightest interest in your Facebook style "picture of my dinner" type postings.

Just for the record we recently had a smart electricity meter fitted and the technician had it all done in less than 20 minutes (in a house dating from 1875). That answers your point but I apologise to everyone else reading this topic for wasting their time with personal and mundane trivia.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Sorry, I still have no idea what you are on about when you say Active D

The full sentence was “an active D-Side connection”. Remember the OR copper network is E-side (Exchange side) copper from Exchange to PCP cabinet, and the D-Side (distribution) from PCP cabinet into the homes.

I think you cut off the sentence early.

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

Adrian

For heaven's sake. You keep on about your personal situation overlaid with your own personal prejudices and follow up with anecdotal comments about friends of yours. This is a very small sample size if you could lift your head up just a little and see that there is a wider world than the very narrow orbit which seems to span your restricted view. If it is such a limited horizon, why do you think anyone with a broader view will have the slightest interest in your Facebook style "picture of my dinner" type postings.

Just for the record we recently had a smart electricity meter fitted and the technician had it all done in less than 20 minutes (in a house dating from 1875). That answers your point but I apologise to everyone else reading this topic for wasting their time with personal and mundane trivia.

I also have gas and as i said above, it took more than 20 minutes for them to change that when I had to have a new gas meter due to the one I had being too old.

Anyway, it doesn't matter, I am not having a smart meter, simple as and will try to stay on FTTC.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

[The full sentence was “an active D-Side connection”. Remember the OR copper network is E-side (Exchange side) copper from Exchange to PCP cabinet, and the D-Side (distribution) from PCP cabinet into the homes.

I think you cut off the sentence early.
[/quote]

Ah, I see now.

I agree with your comments, his posts have been rambling on for months with the same repetitive statements. It is particularly annoying when another person's thread is derailed by often unrelated comments.

I thought you were joking when you related my mention of active D-Side copper pairs to vitamin supplements.

I can certainly understand your unwillingness to move from VSDL to FTTP. I am in a similar situation in that I'm happy with my current ADSL/PSTN services which are quite adequate for my needs and at some point will probably have to pay more for a FTTP/VoIP combination.

However, returning to the topic of copper pairs, I certainly would be 100% in favour of full fibre for broadband (for technical reasons) if only it was at the same price that I'm paying for ADSL now.

Edited by 4M2 (Mon 05-Dec-22 17:29:14)

In reply to a post by 4M2:

I thought you were joking when you related my mention of active D-Side copper pairs to vitamin supplements.

LOL,

I can certainly understand your unwillingness to move from VSDL to FTTP. I am in a similar situation in that I'm happy with my current ADSL/PSTN services which are quite adequate for my needs and at some point will probably have to pay more for a FTTP/VoIP combination.

However, returning to the topic of copper pairs, I certainly would be 100% in favour of full fibre for broadband (for technical reasons) if only it was at the same price that I'm paying for ADSL now.

ADSL? ouch, I think if it was a choice between ADSL and FTTP I would go for FTTP. ADSL here is awful, which is why I jumped a few years ago to Wireless broadband, which I would have stayed with if the service was better, now they have stopped the service, still have the unit on the roof. FTTC came here, and it made sense to go with that. I went with Plusnet and have been with them since.
Can you not get FTTC where you are? If it is price you are bothered about, the difference is minimal.

Plusnet offers 74Mb/s FTTP at around £23, so cheaper than what I am paying now, but as I have said before, it is not all about price, the main problem is the long contract. I still have not made up my mind what to do.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Can you not get FTTC where you are?

Since FTTP is available to me and stop sell PSTN will probably occur sometime next year then I might consider FTTC if it was on a one month minimum term, activation was free, and a free modem/router was supplied However, as I said previously, currently I'm quite happy with ADSL- speeds are fine for my needs and the connection hasn't dropped sync for months.

Anyway I wish you all the best and hope that you can perhaps work something out with your Plusnet broadband service.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Since FTTP is available to me and stop sell PSTN will probably occur sometime next year then I might consider FTTC if it was on a one month minimum term, activation was free, and a free modem/router was supplied However, as I said previously, currently I'm quite happy with ADSL- speeds are fine for my needs and the connection hasn't dropped sync for months.

Ah, so you want one-month terms, they are there, but pretty expensive, I would not mind doing that myself, but too expensive. If they do stop sell where you are then surly that will also stop the sale of FTTC?

Anyway I wish you all the best and hope that you can perhaps work something out with your Plusnet broadband service.

Cheers, difficult to know what to do to be honest.

He's talking about the PSTN/WLR stop sell which comes in to effect for everyone in 2023, with final closure of the service in 2025.

My understanding is that ADSL without PSTN (SOTAP) won't be an option after 2023 if FTTC or FTTP is available.

The FTTP Priority stop sell and the WLR/PSTN stop sell are 2 completely separate programmes.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Ah, so you want one-month terms, they are there, but pretty expensive, I would not mind doing that myself, but too expensive.

Probably not relevant in your case (nor me) but for anyone out of contract and who already has FTTC and has a suitable modem/router then a Pulse8 deal might be OK - £30 (inc. VAT) per month even for 38Mbps though!

Bearing in mind the Pulse8broadband website is the place. Not Pulse8. Completely different websites.

In reply to a post by pluralist:

Bearing in mind the Pulse8broadband website is the place. Not Pulse8. Completely different websites.

The "View Internet Connectivity" link on the pulse8.co.uk site takes me to pulse8broadband.co.uk

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

He's talking about the PSTN/WLR stop sell which comes in to effect for everyone in 2023, with final closure of the service in 2025.

My understanding is that ADSL without PSTN (SOTAP) won't be an option after 2023 if FTTC or FTTP is available.

The FTTP Priority stop sell and the WLR/PSTN stop sell are 2 completely separate programmes.

I keep forgetting about that.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Probably not relevant in your case (nor me) but for anyone out of contract and who already has FTTC and has a suitable modem/router then a Pulse8 deal might be OK - £30 (inc. VAT) per month even for 38Mbps though!

I know I want shorter contracts, but I also don't want to pay £30 a month for the service, 12 months contract is fine.
Cheers anyway.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Probably not relevant in your case (nor me) but for anyone out of contract and who already has FTTC and has a suitable modem/router then a Pulse8 deal might be OK - £30 (inc. VAT) per month even for 38Mbps though!

I know I want shorter contracts, but I also don't want to pay £30 a month for the service, 12 months contract is fine.
Cheers anyway.

Why not send an e-mail to all of the active ISPs setting out your terms and conditions to see if anyone is willing to supply you?

No ISP that can offer the service for the price that Adrian wants to pay is going to write up a custom contract for him, or deal with sales with a named account manager via email. He's after a price right at the bottom of the UK market but with bespoke terms.

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

Why not send an e-mail to all of the active ISPs setting out your terms and conditions to see if anyone is willing to supply you?

I want a monthly rolling contract and broadband for a tenner a month
I wish.,

i think at the moment, Now broadband offers is the best one out there, the price has gone up a little bit, but it is a 12-month contract and still cheaper than what I am paying now.
Still not decided what to do, if I wait until the end of this contract I may not be able to stay on FTTC, but in one way I want to wait until the end of this contract to see what is available. Now broadband only offer FTTC, I wonder if they will stay like that until Jun next year.

I hope you don't mean we are going to suffer this stream-of-consciousness burble for another 7 months.

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

I hope you don't mean we are going to suffer this stream-of-consciousness burble for another 7 months.

#
#
You don't have to read it, You got hands to allow you to skip past it. Now I am going to do it just to annoy you,

"Now I am going to do it just to annoy you, "

The problem with doing that is if you actually require help then people will ignore all your posts.

In reply to a post by broadband66:

"Now I am going to do it just to annoy you, "

The problem with doing that is if you actually require help then people will ignore all your posts.

I should have put a smiley on the end.
But you don't have to read the posts or reply, just skip past it. I do that to posts I am not interested in.


Anyway, I think I have decided what to do and that is to wait until the end of my contract, I have looked at the broadband availability checker from BT and according to that we are not FTTP Priority or a WLR Withdrawal exchange, so I will see what things are like by June.

"But you don't have to read the posts or reply, just skip past it. I do that to posts I am not interested in."

That doesn't make sense as you would have to open the post and read it to decide to ignore it, as the post may be of use to you.

In reply to a post by broadband66:

"But you don't have to read the posts or reply, just skip past it. I do that to posts I am not interested in."

That doesn't make sense as you would have to open the post and read it to decide to ignore it, as the post may be of use to you.

You can still skip past it.

In reply to a post by broadband66:

"But you don't have to read the posts or reply, just skip past it. I do that to posts I am not interested in."

That doesn't make sense as you would have to open the post and read it to decide to ignore it, as the post may be of use to you.

If you are using Flat mode it is already open, and you probably aren't looking at who posted it before reading..

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

In reply to a post by broadband66:

"But you don't have to read the posts or reply, just skip past it. I do that to posts I am not interested in."

That doesn't make sense as you would have to open the post and read it to decide to ignore it, as the post may be of use to you.

You can still skip past it.

Isn't that a rather selfish attitude given the number of irrelevant posts and hi-jacked threads where we get the Adrian life-story rather than any contribution to the subject matter? Why should you be so arrogant as to expect people to have to go skip > skip > skip over your ramblings? They may have an interest in the original information in the topic and they are hoping there might be a posting from another poster which actually contains some information relevant to the topic and helpful to the reader? It is hard to maintain that focus when wading through pages of off-topic material. Please be a bit more aware about the impact your postings have on the users of the forum who are genuinely looking for help rather than biography.

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

Isn't that a rather selfish attitude given the number of irrelevant posts and hi-jacked threads where we get the Adrian life-story rather than any contribution to the subject matter? Why should you be so arrogant as to expect people to have to go skip > skip > skip over your ramblings? They may have an interest in the original information in the topic and they are hoping there might be a posting from another poster which actually contains some information relevant to the topic and helpful to the reader? It is hard to maintain that focus when wading through pages of off-topic material. Please be a bit more aware about the impact your postings have on the users of the forum who are genuinely looking for help rather than biography.

Have people lost the art of speed reading these days? Just a quick look and if they see anything interesting then take a closer look?
Most people hijack a topic and topics go off topics, because that is life, if you chat to people in the real world you don't stay on the same topic, but there is someone at work who seems to and gets boring chatting about the same thing all the time even stuff I am interested in.

I admit I do go into a rambling mode sometimes, I try not to, but I remember something else and just put it down.~

In reply to a post by pluralist:

In reply to a post by broadband66:

"But you don't have to read the posts or reply, just skip past it. I do that to posts I am not interested in."

That doesn't make sense as you would have to open the post and read it to decide to ignore it, as the post may be of use to you.

If you are using Flat mode it is already open, and you probably aren't looking at who posted it before reading..

I know what you mean, but just fast read and think, nope not interested, I use flat mode.

Anyway, this is a thread I opened and I asked a question, then got the "I hope you don't mean we are going to suffer this stream-of-consciousness burble for another 7 months." from gone postal, so am I just supposed to ignore that?