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Standard User deleted
(deleted) Thu 26-May-11 18:00:58
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Re: What a joke!


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
Sigh... yet another BT vs Virgin thread, they are both as bad as each other lets just agree they both suck and that the government need to do more if they really do see broadband as an important part of the future of Britain and don't want a huge 'digital divide' between some urban areas that will have FTTP/C, cable and LLU services and most rural areas that will get BT wholesale ADSL and nothing else.

As for whinging about 19mbit.. no comment is needed as like has been said you have way above the average so not sure what your point is..
Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Thu 26-May-11 18:59:38
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Re: What a joke!


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by worldofadsl:
In my experience I have never had a problem with them and still use them in my other property.
A pity they are letting you down at this property then. Why aren't you whining about that?

Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Just because he can smile
Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Thu 26-May-11 19:13:31
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Re: What a joke!


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by worldofadsl:
What an absolute load of rubbish... id like to see some evidence about your 2nd statement!
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/4650-virgin-media...

According to that only 3.7% of VM's customers have opted for the 50Mb/s service. Does that sound like a popular 'must have' service to you?

Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Just because he can smile


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Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Thu 26-May-11 19:33:14
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Re: What a joke!


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
My point is that considering the size of the country BT have been holding back for years. It is all well and good government saying X, Y and Z should be done but if BT don't pull their fingers out it will never happen.

... and where is your thread complaining about Virgin' inadequate roll out of services to where you have moved to. Virgin have been around long enough to take their fair share of your blame.

Standard User deleted
(deleted) Thu 26-May-11 19:34:41
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Re: What a joke!


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
isn't that what businesses are all about,

guaranteeing a return in their investment?
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Thu 26-May-11 21:02:56
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Re: What a joke!


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by worldofadsl:
Where you live should not have anything to do with service!!


I'm not even going to explain to you why that has to be one of the most absurd comments I have ever read on these forums. If you don't know why I think this, then you definitely can't see past the end of your nose, to the big picture that lies right in front of you.

I will however point you to this lovely story for further reading, and then you might at least be grateful for how lucky you are to actually have a 19mbit broadband connection, rather than none at all:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2011...

And if you still don't 'get it' after reading that, someone needs to invent one of these to help you out.
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Thu 26-May-11 21:18:08
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Re: What a joke!


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
I am waiting for the whining to really start when the OP finds out that his line is connected to the exchange and so won't have FTTC.
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Thu 26-May-11 22:14:26
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Re: What a joke!


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mixt:
In reply to a post by worldofadsl:
Where you live should not have anything to do with service!!


I'm not even going to explain to you why that has to be one of the most absurd comments I have ever read on these forums.


Well said, mixt!

I wouldn't normally post this, because I will be stating the bleeding obvious for most posters to this site, but at the moment I'm trying to put together a 5Gbps radio link scheme to carry broadband at 6Mpbs to some friends of mine in a Scottish community that's currently getting ADSLmax at 256kbps and paying the same as everyone else with 8Mbps ADSLmax.

And that's before I start quoting for more expensive (but at least it's cheaper than it used to be!) satellite access broadband from HYLAS-1, for others who can't get ADSL broadband at all.
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Thu 26-May-11 23:18:41
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Re: What a joke!


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
I picked up on exaclty the same quote, but i think your summary is a little harsh. You're right about how some decision-makers view short term though.

However, the UK has a lot of infrastructure that was innovative and made commercial sense at the time, but is rather dated now - 7' wide canals, for instance. So we get infrastructure relatively early in the lifecycle (in global terms), and suffer as others only install something a little newer, but later. We get a first-mover advantage, but not necessarily a long-term advantage.

To the companies that made the initial gamble/investment, there is of course a lot to be said for making the most of the existing investment. Quite naturally.

The problem is that we have a combination -
a) a national, widespread, fairly reasonable but old-ish, copper network that can be enticed to give reasonable-ish bandwidth at relatively cheap prices.
b) very cheap broadband packages, where charge isn't related to speed
c) a subscriber base that isn't willing to pay higher prices for faster speeds
d) Investors that won't take a long enough view

In that environment, there isn't a ready mass-market for a whole new access network that will be expensive to install. Insufficient people will pay the monthly charges required to recoup this investment - because copper will be massively cheaper, and "just" good enough. People will eventually want this stuff, but the investors aren't prepared to wait long enough.

It is frustrating when you want this stuff, and you're willing to pay the premium for it. You just need another 10 million to be willing too.

The thing is... to make the government's target come true (both "the best" high speed broadband in Europe *and* universal obligation of 2Mbps) by 2015 means we have to overtake both Sweden & Holland, who aren't standing still.

Someone is going to be doing a lot of rollout to make that happen over 4 years. BT are getting themselves into a position where they have the core network; they have the technology for the rollout, and have the trained staff to effect a rollout. Fujitsu is still a dream, but perhaps with potential. Sky will attempt to cream the masses off onto a sub-standard core/service package. And then there's VM, who i (obviously) just don't rate.

And someone has to pay for it all too...

The mobile networks have some potential to play a part in this, but the government needs to have a different view of handing spectrum over this time (instead of it being effectively a humungous telecom tax, like the 3G auction a decade ago). Every £ paid for spectrum reduces the likelihood of it becoming useful broadband coverage to rural areas.

Satellite too. But I wonder how many people will think of this as a viable option? I suspect it will only happen when villages get organised en-masse.

PS - A better current example from the UK is perhaps the Hindhead Tunnel. 4x the cost, but expecting 35,000 vehicles per day. It is a badly needed upgrade to the road - but it became a tunnel as a solution to avoid a beauty spot! Huge costs, but distinctly long-term value.
Standard User camieabz
(legend) Fri 27-May-11 00:39:19
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Re: What a joke!


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
The tunnel has 104 CCTV cameras


For 1.14 miles of tunnel?

That's one camera for every 58 feet, or 2 for every 116 feet if they are on both tunnels. Wouldn't a traffic camera at either end, counting them in and out be better?

Good though. I like the idea of digging down the way to hide the traffic, park the cars and avoid the hills. We could learn a lot from many similar models.


Coming back to broadband,

The problem is that we have a combination -
a) a national, widespread, fairly reasonable but old-ish, copper network that can be enticed to give reasonable-ish bandwidth at relatively cheap prices.
b) very cheap broadband packages, where charge isn't related to speed
c) a subscriber base that isn't willing to pay higher prices for faster speeds
d) Investors that won't take a long enough view


a) I agree with that in as much that it has to be cheaper to get existing infrastrucuture up to the highest speeds it can handle, rather than upgrade to new stuff (talking purely about copper over fibre btw). While much of the country can use fibre due to copper's limitations, 90 odd percent of residential and a decent percentage of commercial businesses do not need it to operate. They perhaps need web access, a website and e-mail. That does not need fibre speeds for the most part. Large companies with masses of employees or data networking, yes, but your average small to medium, non-IT related company just wants necessity services (as above).

In that sense, both the residential and commercial customers should be pushing for ADSL2+, rather than fibre. Get the country up to a reasonable speed, and see if the infrastructure can handle it. While that's all happening, the networks are being upgraded with a view towards fibre.


b) That's the biggest problem imo. One person paying less for 50 Meg than someone on 256k is criminal. If ADSL2+ was £5 more expensive, some would not take it. Many would, but at least those who could not reach said speeds would not have to pay more. Same goes for fibre.

I remember this article:

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/2010/07/08/is-fibre-bro...


c) I don't agree completely. I'll go more with "isn't willing to pay substantially higher prices". There are so many savings to be made by online shopping, information gathering and so on, that a fiver is nothing.

d) Yup! smile

~~~~~~~~~~


© Camieabz 2002-2011

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