Nothing to lose really and you only have to stay with AAISP for a minimum of a month

AAISP do claim they have not one single customer who has been disappointed

Agreed, go for it and please keep in touch.

Aquiss have done nothing wrong, as you say, but AAISP are unsurpassed so far as I know in getting things fixed. Just browse through what they set up[ to monitor your line for instance.

It can't do any harm to try them, expensive though it may be. Note that the "units" system is actually remarkably flexible if you are careful, as the estimator is just that. You don't have to use the units in the way you estimated you needed them. So 0.3 units at the right time of day can give a huge amount. For example [][]

Your usage does not have to be whole units at certain times, you can use some of a unit during the day and some in the evening, etc. We also have a special bonus aimed at people doing backups and file transfers over night. Instead of the normal off peak tariff, between 2am and 6am usage is metered at 1000GB/unit.

Aquiss have done nothing wrong, as you say, but AAISP are unsurpassed so far as I know in getting things fixed. Just browse through what they set up to monitor your line for instance.

It can't do any harm to try them, expensive though it may be. Note that the "units" system is actually remarkably flexible if you are careful, as the estimator is just that. You don't have to use the units in the way you estimated you needed them. So 0.3 units at the right time of day can give a huge amount. For example:-

Your usage does not have to be whole units at certain times, you can use some of a unit during the day and some in the evening, etc. We also have a special bonus aimed at people doing backups and file transfers over night. Instead of the normal off peak tariff, between 2am and 6am usage is metered at 1000GB.

I've spent the last 10 minutes skimming over your previous thread, and parts of this one.

Is it a 21CN connection you are on? If so, the DLM can force your modem to sync with an SNR as low as 3db. If you have a noisy/unstable line, this might be just too low to get a reliable stable sync on the line using fast path, unless you go the interleaved route, which is not what you need or want as you use VOIP.

Please check what the modem reports as your SNR on a fresh re-sync. If it is 3db, and you are on fast path, it is highly probably you will get noise interference, causing frames to be corrupted between you and the DSLAM, resulting in packet loss. In this case, I would suggest purchasing a modem where you can force what the target SNR will be (not all do this) so that it will sync at a more stable rate.

Moving to another ISP (AAISP) will not help you in this instance, as BT's DLM will still be on your line. The real downer here (and this is insane) is that BT will not allow you or your ISP to fixate the target SNR for your modem sync - it just auto learns, and picks what it thinks is best. I personally hate this, because sometimes, it just isn't going to make the correct judgements about your line.

Your other alternative is to move to an LLU provider like BE (assuming they are at your exchange) where you can set the target SNR for your line, to has high as 15db (they give you control of this and fastpath/interleaving through their portal) - if you are still getting packet loss on a 15db SNR, you probably need a new phone line.

If you have genuinely fixed the voice fault on the line (that is, you hear no abnormalities on a quite line test), and you've had repeated engineer visits saying the line is OK, I think the issue here is fast path with a low SNR. For the length of your line, you should be looking at at least an SNR of 6db and, for absolute stability, 9 or 12db. If you stick with a connection supplied by BT (20/21CN), this is going to be tricky to obtain without using a router that allows you to define what SNR it syncs at.

So, to summarise:

- if you still believe you have a line fault (voice/broadband) and BT engineers say otherwise, move to AAISP (they -will- escalate to BT and they will fix your fault).

- if the line is now fine, consider moving to BE (if you can) where you have full control over setting your line to fast path/interleaved with SNR targets of 3,6,9,12 and 15db.

Good luck.

Hi there, I'm on a 20CN line, here is my statistics.


ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 7232 kbps 832 kbps
Line Attenuation 37.0 db 20.5 db
Noise Margin 8.9 db 9.0 db

Ok, to put your line in perspective, I'm on 31db attenuation synced at 13,831bps with an SNR of 3db (but this is ADSL2+). So these stats look normal in my opinion.

How is the Fast Path HEC error rate looking? (some modems measure this as errored seconds). If this is clocking up even slightly (10 a second), that's probably enough to cause packet loss on fast path.

If I was in your shoes, I would move to AAISP and let them escalate to BT - but only if you still think there is a line fault. Have you tried alternative modems / splitters etc? (just checking).

AAISP will not lock you into a contract, so once they fix the fault, you can of course just give them 30 days notice and move to another ISP. But they do have many many useful features like continuous line monitoring and the ability to set the BRAS download rate their side, to say, 95% of the BT BRAS, which (if you do some reading on their site) people have reported works very well for VOIP (which is your primary use).

Either way, let them fix the fault, and see how you get on. If after a while you are happy, you could risk then moving back to a cheaper provider. If you do go this route, I would recommend BE (if available) for the reasons I stated my previous post.

Edited by deleted (Sat 02-Jul-11 22:35:34)

In reply to a post by mixt:

A very well-reasoned post.

Just two or three factual errors, (I think!).

First, Be do not offer full control over the sync-time noise margin, unless they have altered things recently. They offer three settings in the control panel, which seem to be 3dB, 6dB and 9dB. Though I expect others are available through support.

Secondly, again unless things have changed, BT Wholesale can certainly fix the sync-time noise margin as high as 18dB. (The DLM limit being 15dB). The "auto" system can be, and often is, turned off.

Thirdly only the trialling DLM running on some DSALM/MSANs can set the margin as low as 3dB. The minimum on the standard DLM, even on WBC, is 6dB.

Incidentally , "fixate" isn't what you mean. Look it up .

First, Be do not offer full control over the sync-time noise margin, unless they have altered things recently. They offer three settings in the control panel, which seem to be 3dB, 6dB and 9dB. Though I expect others are available through support

Correct. 12db and 15db being available via contacting support only

NB: There are indications of high latency on BE from NI exchanges at the moment. Does not appear to be affecting O2

lol, ok, thanks for the corrections.

Yes, BE portal allows 3,6,9db - you have to phone them for the 12 and 15db options.

Last time I spoke with AA, the chap said they couldn't set the DLM static at a certain SNR. I'm purely speaking the information as I have been given it. If it is indeed possible to do this, then the OP should look at maybe getting his 9db upped to 12db and beyond. But this then suggests to me that the line is actually pretty poor and one of these annoying cases where BT just wont see anything wrong with it.