In reply to a post by GeeTee:

That could potentially be very bad news. Just going by what you stated - TalkTalk said that they could only give you ADSL2+ speeds if you gave them the line rental as well. The primary reason for that is that they do not offer broadband only packages. The concern is that they may only have full MPF LLU in your exchange i.e. only capable of delivering both voice and broadband (as opposed to shared MPF (SMPF) which can be used by LLU operators to provide broadband on other telephony providers lines).

Hi GeeTee,

TalkTalk Group have SMPF DSLAM equipment in many exchanges to support legacy Tiscali, Pipex, Nildram, and also AOL customers who have broadband only contracts.

Scenario 2 is far cheaper to supply as the equipment has already been installed by the previous ISPs.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

GeeTee

I thought of possibility 1 this morning before I read your post. I also think it's unlikely, but a possibility. I guess a call to BT should confirm the phone is still with them, and I guess there should be other ways I could check myself if the phone line has been switched to TT?

Assuming it's only the BB service that's been switched to TT, I have a difficult decision in front of me. Even if I decide to move to Zen, I will have a week or so running at about 18Mbps before the transfer takes effect. Then my line speed will drop by a factor of two to three after I've become used to the faster speed. Not a nice prospect!

Thanks to everyone for their help. I'm out this morning. Will keep you posted.

if you have been provided a mac code, you are on smpf

if you dial 17070, if you can do a line test you are still on a bt wholesale line, on talktalk's network it only repeats your number to you

Without knowing the speed your ADSL modem is connected at, then anything said is pure guesswork

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

TalkTalk Group have SMPF DSLAM equipment in many exchanges to support legacy Tiscali, Pipex, Nildram, and also AOL customers who have broadband only contracts.

Err no!

I am fairly sure there is no difference in the exchange between the ISP equipment for MPF and SMPF. The difference is purely what the ISP chooses to allow. As in Sky, who used to allow SMPF for new customers but now require MPF, though existing SMPFs bcan continue as they are.

Scenario 2 is far cheaper to supply as the equipment has already been installed by the previous ISPs.

Errr no!

I am absolutely sure that on any broadband connection the line from the customer's premises terminates on the ISP's or wholesaler's DSLAM/MSAN. So broadband through BT Wholesale is to a BT Wholesale DSLAM/MSAN, and SMF and SMPF by an LLU ISP both end up on the providing LLU ISP's kit.

From the DSLAM or MSAN the phone connection is then linked to either the main BT MDF, (SMPF), or through whatever backhaul the LLU CP has provisioned, (MPF).

Its not clear whether TalkTalk has actually removed old Tiscali group LLU kit from exchanges, it may be doing this slowly.

A lot will depend on the age of the kit.

But yes nothing stopping MPF and SMPF being ran from the same MSAN, the ISP may reserve some line cards for MPF only possibly.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I am fairly sure there is no difference in the exchange between the ISP equipment for MPF and SMPF. The difference is purely what the ISP chooses to allow. As in Sky, who used to allow SMPF for new customers but now require MPF, though existing SMPFs bcan continue as they are.

Err no!

As it's widely believed TalkTalk use Huawei kit, I'll use them as a reference:

DSLAM - SMPF - http://www.huawei.com/en/products/fixed-access/dslam...
MSAN - MPF - http://www.huawei.com/en/products/fixed-access/multi...

Different devices. There's no indication they can be mixed and matched. Only the DSLAM has any reference to the splitters required to be able to return the voice path.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Hi GeeTee,

TalkTalk Group have SMPF DSLAM equipment in many exchanges to support legacy Tiscali, Pipex, Nildram, and also AOL customers who have broadband only contracts.

Scenario 2 is far cheaper to supply as the equipment has already been installed by the previous ISPs.

Not sure if you are the same Anon as the OP.

However, no doubt on either point.

That said, this appears to be a recently unbundled exchange (ref: SamKnows still has it as a Market 1 exchange http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/THWA). Given that TalkTalk don't offer broadband only products would they be installing new DSLAMs just to move those legacy customers over onto? I guess that comes down to the economics of each particular exchange in terms of how many of those legacy customers they have iin it. I'm sure they are not going to pop-up on here and disclose what their new footprint is exactly or how they do the financial modelling to work out what they consider viable, that would be commercially suicidal.

In reply to a post by GeeTee:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I am fairly sure there is no difference in the exchange between the ISP equipment for MPF and SMPF. The difference is purely what the ISP chooses to allow. As in Sky, who used to allow SMPF for new customers but now require MPF, though existing SMPFs bcan continue as they are.

Err no!

As it's widely believed TalkTalk use Huawei kit, I'll use them as a reference:

DSLAM - SMPF - http://www.huawei.com/en/products/fixed-access/dslam...
MSAN - MPF - http://www.huawei.com/en/products/fixed-access/multi...

Different devices. There's no indication they can be mixed and matched. Only the DSLAM has any reference to the splitters required to be able to return the voice path.

Without knowing what all the acronyms used in the MSAN writeup, it rather looks to me as though it integrates the splitter functionality on the DSLAM line card boards into some more efficient system. To me it reads as though it could happily connect the voice side to the BT MDF.

In particular, given a phone line which is provisioned under WLR by virtually anyone, with WBC-based broadband, how does the BT Wholesale MSAN handle it? The line is not under BT Wholesale control.

I stand to be corrected of course. In my previous post I did say "I am fairly sure there is no difference in the exchange between the ISP equipment for MPF and SMPF". Fair enough, there is. But not so far proven to be relevant.

So I'm not convinced you are right re point 1, and the point two made by the Anonymous poster, which I more strongly challenged, is just tripe. Even if you are saying MPF can only be provided over an MSAN, (are you?), the point isn't relevant to the OP's situation.

In particular, given a phone line which is provisioned under WLR by virtually anyone, with WBC-based broadband, how does the BT Wholesale MSAN handle it? The line is not under BT Wholesale control.

Exactly the same way as for old style DSLAM's ie. splitter

As MSAN is just a multiple service DSLAM, with some interegration that can make wiring simpler in situations where there is one voice provider.

In scenarios like Openreach have in an exchange, the costs are higher for all parties due to the flexibility/extra wiring that needs to be supported to allow for the various phone/broadband options.

In reply to a post by GeeTee:

Not sure if you are the same Anon as the OP.

No, I'm the OP. I've only made two posts on this topic. I was registered when I last used ADSLGuide in 2003, but forgot my login details. I can see it's confusing when several anons are posting.

I've not got involved in technology post ADSL at all. Can someone please point me to a good quick summary that will help me with DSLAM,MSAM,SMPF,MPF,SMF,etc... I think I need to get up to speed on the current technology before I proceed further.

Thanks,
Arnold