In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Without knowing the speed your ADSL modem is connected at, then anything said is pure guesswork

Andrew,

As I said in an earlier post, I thought I was on 8Mbps on a BT wholesale connection with Pipex, but from what my router says now, I appear to be on
ADLS2+
Downstream 18Mps
Upstream 1Mbps
and probably with TalkTalk, though this is surmise at the moment.

I could possibly clear up some of this by contacting Pipex, but given my earlier experiences with them, I'd prefer to get a bit more up to speed on the technology before I do so.

Arnold

In which case your speedtest results make perfect sense.

Pipex was bought by Tiscali, who in turn were bought by TalkTalk, and TalkTalk has been intergrating and upgrading a lot of these customers from ADSL to ADSL2+ so your speed jump is of no surprise.

It is less of a technology issue, more of a keeping pace with the musical chairs that has gone in the ISP industry.

In reply to a post by GeeTee:

That could potentially be very bad news. Just going by what you stated - TalkTalk said that they could only give you ADSL2+ speeds if you gave them the line rental as well. The primary reason for that is that they do not offer broadband only packages. The concern is that they may only have full MPF LLU in your exchange i.e. only capable of delivering both voice and broadband (as opposed to shared MPF (SMPF) which can be used by LLU operators to provide broadband on other telephony providers lines).

So I envisage two possible scenarios:
1. TalkTalk processed a sales order to take over both voice and broadband despite you indicating you did not want to proceed. That would cause your line to move from WLR with whatever provider you are with now to TalkTalk's full MPF. This would also generate a broadband cease that Zen would be able to see on their BT systems.

2. Both MPF and SMPF (or maybe just SMPF) capacity has been installed in your exchange by TalkTalk and as LLU is far less costly for them to supply they have migrated just your broadband from BTWholesale IPStream to SMPF LLU. This could be done without necessitating a move from Pipex (brand) to TalkTalk (brand) and still retaining your current telephony provider. The cease of the IPStream during the migration would also be visible to Zen in this scenario.


If scenario 1. were the case you should have received a "We're sorry you're leaving" letter from your current line rental provider. Check your post It would also make it more tricky / expensive to move onto another provider for voice and/or broadband. Although you'd have a good case for recompense as they effectively "slammed" your line.

Personally I think that scenario 2. is more likely and it is in fact just coincidental timing that you called Pipex to discuss leaving and MAC codes etc. just at the time there were orders flowing through there internal systems to move you from IPStream to SMPF, so the agent quite possibly misinterpreted what they had in front of them. SMPF is no harder to migrate away from than IPStream - it uses the same MAC code process.

I've never been a customer of either company so can't comment on any customer service issues from my own experience. All I can say w.r.t. TalkTalk is from the comments made by posters on this forum is that the TalkTalk members' forum is often more expeditious than the telephone route in. Can't attest to the veracity of that, it's just hearsay.

Let us know how it goes - might be worth giving it a few days for internal sytems to sort themselves out then give Pipex a call back and confirm you are still active with them. They should also be able to confirm that they can see that you are now on LLU or not - although I think we know the answer to that already!

GeeTee,
Thank you. I just read your post more thoroughly. There was a lot of info that cleared up some of my questions. When I first read your post, I was rushing away to an early morning appointment on the golf course - the joys of retirement.

Arnold

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

if you have been provided a mac code, you are on smpf

if you dial 17070, if you can do a line test you are still on a bt wholesale line, on talktalk's network it only repeats your number to you

Thanks. I've dialled 17070 and confirmed I'm still on a BT wholesale line

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Without knowing what all the acronyms used in the MSAN writeup, it rather looks to me as though it integrates the splitter functionality on the DSLAM line card boards into some more efficient system. To me it reads as though it could happily connect the voice side to the BT MDF.

In particular, given a phone line which is provisioned under WLR by virtually anyone, with WBC-based broadband, how does the BT Wholesale MSAN handle it? The line is not under BT Wholesale control.

I stand to be corrected of course. In my previous post I did say "I am fairly sure there is no difference in the exchange between the ISP equipment for MPF and SMPF". Fair enough, there is. But not so far proven to be relevant.

So I'm not convinced you are right re point 1, and the point two made by the Anonymous poster, which I more strongly challenged, is just tripe. Even if you are saying MPF can only be provided over an MSAN, (are you?), the point isn't relevant to the OP's situation.

Your summation on the MSAN splitter functionality is correct. Only difference is is that on the DSLAM setup the voice frequencies have to be presented back out on a separate tie pair to be returned to the MDF from where they are then jumpered onwards to whichever suppliers' PSTN kit. The MSAN does not physically have the connectors to facilitate that, it's all internalised.

As for relevance - I was concerned the OP may have been moved to full MPF unintentionally i.e. TT put a sales order through by mistake. Recoving from that scenario would be likely painful.

Ref WLR - MrSaffron covered that in his reply.

Ref the quesiton on MPF only over an MSAN. If by MPF you mean an LLUO providing both PSTN and ADSL then it is the most common way of doing it in the UK. Technically I guess it would be possible to install both a DSLAM and some other PSTN device alongside and jumper between the two from the incoming line. But it would consume more space and costs.

I think both MSAN and DSLAM chassis can be physically installed in the same rack if required.

All good then. It would seem TT group have indeed installed SMPF capacity in the exchange and elected to move you from IPStream to that - presumably to reduce costs. Benefit to you is the uplift to ADSL2+.

You're still a Pipex customer, just the DSL is provided over the TT network rather than over BTWholesale.

In reply to a post by GeeTee:

Not sure if you are the same Anon as the OP.

However, no doubt on either point.

That said, this appears to be a recently unbundled exchange (ref: SamKnows still has it as a Market 1 exchange http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/THWA). Given that TalkTalk don't offer broadband only products would they be installing new DSLAMs just to move those legacy customers over onto? I guess that comes down to the economics of each particular exchange in terms of how many of those legacy customers they have iin it. I'm sure they are not going to pop-up on here and disclose what their new footprint is exactly or how they do the financial modelling to work out what they consider viable, that would be commercially suicidal.

Tiscali used Huawei dslam msan equipment too

TalkTalk do offer a broadband only product, it's called AOL http://www.aolbroadband.co.uk/

Thanks Andrew, that's what I thought. The result is the same, just a different setup to achieve it.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

TalkTalk do offer a broadband only product, it's called AOL http://www.aolbroadband.co.uk/

And comes with an extremely generous 10 GB download allowance.

Edited by Oliver341 (Fri 19-Aug-11 23:51:35)

GeeTee

I just spoke to Zen sales to confirm I could move to them from Pipex (if I wanted) even though I have now LLU broadband with Pipex/TT, as I now have my MAC. He said, yes, I can move because I don't have LLU broadband - I'm on the BT database. He couldn't explain how I am now getting 18.5Mbps. He said if I did have a LLU broadband supply, Zen could not give me broadband without my getting a new phone line, but he insisted I don't have LLU broadband anyway. From your replies, I believe I have to be on an SMPF line and he is wrong. Also that Zen ought to be able to supply me easily if I want to move my broadband supply to them. Maybe he has never heard of an SMPF line, but surely he ought to know about this.

I am confused, and wonder if I should try to speak to someone different in Zen. Have you any comments?

Arnold