In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

I have reams of contractual experience. Those in telecoms are nothing special, Big head!

Or are telecoms contracts written in a lingo other than English?

When a renewable contract ends and you choose not to renew, you auto go on to the standard contract, e.g.:

If you do not wish to renew, all you need to do is let us know before the renewal date. If you choose not to renew your contract with us, you will then start to pay the standard monthly price for the Unlimited Evening and Weekend Plan, currently £16.90 per month including line rental if you pay by Direct Debit or monthly payment plan.

There is no provision for unilateral termination by BT.

Interesting, so your saying (using BT as an example) customer A could come to the end of their current rolling contract at a discounted rate and drop to a standard contract rate which will no doubt be higher than the one they were on in the first place?

Sounds like even more complaints coming then? Although I believe BT do contact you 30days before your current contract is up?

Is the the same/similar to car insurance letters you get at the end of your 12 months the "don't worry you don't have to do anything" ones?

Is the the same/similar to car insurance letters you get at the end of your 12 months the "don't worry you don't have to do anything" ones?

I would say it isn't the same as car renewal. With BT landline if you renew for another 12 month contract you get free evening and weekend calls. If you don't renew then you revert to their standard line rental charges for evening and weekend (at which point you could remove evening and weekend and go back to normal line rental).

With car insurance if you don't renew then you don't have insurance. There generally isn't a monthly rolling contract alternative.

In reply to a post by ian72:

Is the the same/similar to car insurance letters you get at the end of your 12 months the "don't worry you don't have to do anything" ones?

I would say it isn't the same as car renewal. With BT landline if you renew for another 12 month contract you get free evening and weekend calls. If you don't renew then you revert to their standard line rental charges for evening and weekend (at which point you could remove evening and weekend and go back to normal line rental).

With car insurance if you don't renew then you don't have insurance. There generally isn't a monthly rolling contract alternative.

I suppose it depends on your insurer, I'm pretty sure my car and home insurance requires no intervention and I get a letter when the 12 months is almost due showing the new rate and if I do nothing they take the money and we carry on.

Can't remember if that is still current to be honest but it certainly has been the case in the past.

Yes, that is how car insurance works. But you normally carry on as another 12 month contract - not as a rolling 1 month contract. If you don't take the 12 months then you don't get insurance (at least that's how all the ones I've used work).

However, it does seem there are more options to get out of a contract with car insurance. Not sure how that works but it does seem you get some money back if you cancel an insurance policy - so maybe it is different as with BT contracts you would have to buy yourself out of a contract.

Does anyone know if it is standard in car/house insurance to be able to cancel a contract and either get back the unused premiums if paid up front or not have to pay extra if paying monthly?

yes if there is a choice thats fine, but to me the default should be (when no choice is made), the monthly option.

With the insurance companies I am with, you have a period after the renewal (30 days I think) during which you can cancel and receive a full refund of premiums (as long as you have not claimed obviously). After the cool off period, you can cancel and get a pro-rata refund of unused premium, minus a cancellation/admin charge.

I think the cool off period during which you can cancel is mandatory.

Back to the phone, I did not have a rolling 12 month contract with BT for my line rental. I Initially had a 12 month contract, but that was not a rollover type. After the 12 months it reverted to a monthly contract. I still had all the free calls and benefits that the rolling contract had, only it cost me £1 or so more per month. But, the inital discount that I got when I took out the contract initally, was greater for that type of contract than it was by going for the 12 month rollover type (so overall I saved money). I could have committed myself to another 12 months at the end of the first 12 months and saved some money every month, but I did not want to tie myself in (which was a good decision as I have now moved to Sky).

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

yes if there is a choice thats fine, but to me the default should be (when no choice is made), the monthly option.

What do you mean by 'default choice' though? Assuming you want a service from BT then you have to sign up for a specific package. You can't just say "gimme a phone service and I don't care how much it costs" so how can there be a default option.

The only time I'd have a problem with an ARC would be if:

* There was no alternate - ie;it's ARC or do without.
* You get put on an ARC without your express consent (or that you have to either move to ARC or the service is terminated).

I don't know about other telecoms providers but has BT ever done that?

BT are a little remiss in informing new subscribers that take the "free" evening and weekend calls that after the 12 months the contract would be auto renewed. Now as long as you get the letter that it is going to be auto renewed and action it if necessary then that isn't a problem. The problem was with people that apparently didn't get the letter and so didn't know that after their 12 months they were auto-enrolled for another 12 months.

I know BT are not good at making this known as one of my colleagues (a telecomms and networking person) has just moved house and signed up for BT landline and was not aware that there was an ARC (this was a couple of months back so before this announcement).

That to me suggests BT aren't clear.

Personally I have been with BT on this for 3 years now and have each time let it re-contract to keep the free calls as I use little in the way of calls and wouldn't save very much by moving to anyone else (and I still believe BT are about the best out there for dealing with landline faults).

In reply to a post by ian72:

The problem was with people that apparently didn't get the letter and so didn't know that after their 12 months they were auto-enrolled for another 12 months.

'Apparently' being the key word here, I suspect.

I know BT are not good at making this known as one of my colleagues (a telecomms and networking person) has just moved house and signed up for BT landline and was not aware that there was an ARC (this was a couple of months back so before this announcement).

Sorry but I don't buy that either. It was obvious to me that it was an ARC and the letter of confirmation stated it was an ARC.

You may not "buy it" but I had the conversation with my colleague this week and he was not aware that it was an ARC. That is a solid fact. It may be his fault but even if it is somewhere the communication failed between BT and him. That would suggest it was not clear enough for him to have noticed.

There were a number of reports on here of people not getting the reminder letters - I have always received them but I won't be drawn into calling others that have said they did not receive them liars as I take it on face value that they did not for whatever receive them (and if they didn't it could equally have been a problem with royal mail as with BT, but if you don't get the reminder then you won't know it is being renewed).