In reply to a post by billford:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I suggest you pursue the HR fault route with Be support.

Any help?

I was very unhappy about that write-up by Andrew when I first read it, but other things intervened and I forgot to follow it up .

He describes the opposite of what I believe an HR fault to be. As I understand it an HR fault causes disconnections when the phone rings, but he says it improves things.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

As I understand it an HR fault causes disconnections when the phone rings, but he says it improves things.

An HR fault can cause almost anything, depending exactly how it occurs... but an improvement is certainly possible, maybe even likely. If the resistance is high enough to cause a disconnect it will probably prevent the phone ringing!

If the fault isn't bad enough to stop the phone ringing completely, the high current at the ringing stage can temporarily "weld" the poor connection to make a good one- when the ring current stops the line goes poor again.

Have seen both, so went for the one that seemed most common to me.

Brain does fail me at times and do rely on people reading stuff and correcting me if can be shown to have missed the important bits

So the conclusion is an HR fault can improve a poor broadband connection/speed, but can also break a decent one? You have seen more of the first, and I have seen more of the second.

So what does the OP do now? Follow my advice, or ignore it? His certainly breaks when the phone rings, and he seems to have eliminated everything else but that. Has clearly changed from BT Wholesale to LLU, so probably eliminating the exchange end.

Does he chase Be about it or IDNet? I have to say I'm surprised at what broadbandjockey says, but no reason to doubt him.

Chase Be as it appears to be something affecting broadband, mentioning HR as a possible cause

I have also seen many more cases where a HR fault results in lost sync when the phone is in use or rings. However in some cases the reverse is true, using the phone can sometimes make a line sync that otherwise wouldn't.

The main reason is that a HR fault usually results in harmonics being generated on the line. That is to say the bad joint causes frequencies to be modified or reflections created. The change of load on the line will alter the harmonic frequencies generated. In the case of a line that gets worse when the phone is in use the interference created is shifted into the bands used by DSL and where the line improves when the phone is used the interference is shifted out of the range used by DSL.

Often you will notice in the situation where the line improves when the phone is in use that there is audible noise on the line, this is because the interference frequencies have changed from being mangled DSL frequencies to being in the audible range.

Thanks all for the comments.

I have chased IDnet and to be frank, they just keep saying 'disconnect the router and see if the line is noisey'! I find it very frustrating that they either dont or wont grasp the router or routers are not the problem. I will migrate my line from then soon as the BE reseller does phone lines or I decide to migrate both BB & phone to BE themselves.

I have reported the issue to the BE reseller (not for the first time either) and fully expect them to come back with 'change your filter, router, phone, try the test socket blah, blah, blah'!

As someone has already sugested, I think the fault is the 'BT' side of the test socket to the nearest cabinet \ to the exchange. Getting BT or whoever is responsible to do that without charging is nigh on impossible though.

Disconnecting the router is a pointless task.

When there is no router connected to the line there is no DSL signal, the DSLAM at the exchange does not continually broadcast a DSL signal, it waits for a handshake with the router before the two of them start transmitting to each other. Unplugging the router therefore does nothing more than confirm that the noise you hear is a result of having the DSL signal on the line rather than a general voice fault.

It is almost certainly a HR fault, and requires a broadband trained engineer not a regular voice line engineer to find it as a non broadband trained engineer will just put a test handset in the test socket on the NTE-5 and conclude that there is no fault. This means you will need a visit booked as a broadband fault via the ISP not via the BT domestic voice faults line.

HR faults are far more common on BT's lines than they would like you to believe, with their current line test technology them telling you there is no fault is like the water company telling you that water is coming out of your taps when quite obviously there is none.

Don't let the warnings scare you off, there is a clear fault that is not with your equipment as you have replaced all the equipment that you are responsible for. It is now up to BT to find the cause of the fault that can easily and clearly be demonstrated to the engineer by lifting the phone off hook.

In reply to a post by Going_Digital:

HR faults are far more common on BT's lines than they would like you to believe, with their current line test technology them telling you there is no fault is like the water company telling you that water is coming out of your taps when quite obviously there is none.

I'd concur. We've seen many times where the user has no dial tone yet BT state the line is in perfect working order.

Matt

Having carefully read through every post in this thread, I am satisfied that all the symptoms point to a HR fault somewhere in the pair.

wobblyheed, the OP, needs to be insistent with his ISP -- point them to this thread, if necessary -- that the fault requires the attention of an Openreach SFI (broadband) engineer (not a telephony network engineer) with the correct equipment and has been appropriately trained in the usage of that equipment.