In reply to a post by RobertoS:

It is very probable that if your noise margin immediately after a reconnection is still ~15dB that someone is telling porkies.

It would be reset to 6dB on restart of a 10-day training.

They should be able to reset it to 6dB anyway, without doing a full 10-day trip.

Is it possible they have requested a reset/retrain, and that hasn't gone through yet?

I think your last sentence reflects what's happened. The rx noise margin re-set itself to 6dB at 12:45 today. Interestingly the line sync drooped from 7.1Mbps to 6.1Mbps!

Question re the fictitious "training period". If the DLM runs all the time, then is this what makes the idea of a "training period" rubbish? As doesn't the exchange effectively have the option to "fiddle" with things when ever it likes. So really isn't the "training period" infinite?

Going back a few posts. Out of interest, I've been investigating the the idea of "partial LLU". As my exchange now has TalkTalk LLU and it looks like Xilo may well be able to provide this for me (I've Emailed their CS with some queries regarding this). The costs from what I can see are little more than I currently pay at Newnet (they are certainly not a cheap ISP!). Plus their download limits are much more generous. The idea of getting away from BT equipment looks quite appealing. For the life of me I can't see any drawbacks at the moment. Thanks to everyone for explaining this concept to me, even if it took a while for it to sink in.

PS. As to "They should be able to reset it to 6dB anyway, without doing a full 10-day trip." Newnet said that they could not do this and that BT had refused and insisted I had to go through the "training period" again.

Edited by MrBeeline (Wed 22-Feb-12 21:31:24)

I think your last sentence reflects what's happened. The rx noise margin re-set itself to 6dB at 12:45 today. Interestingly the line sync drooped from 7.1Mbps to 6.1Mbps!

An excellent typo . Stats please though.

Question re the fictitious "training period". If the DLM runs all the time, then is this what makes the idea of a "training period" rubbish? As doesn't the exchange effectively have the option to "fiddle" with things when ever it likes. So really isn't the "training period" infinite?

Explained on my website. All the 10-day training does is record the lowest connection speed in the 10 days and set that as the best you can expect. Then it sets 80% of that as the Fault Threshold Rate. As longs as you don't consistently sync below that then Wholesale & Openreach won't even look into slow speed results.

As there appears to be something odd even now, hence the need for the stats, this is a mess!

Partial LLU - an excellent idea. You are looking at 10-11Mbps connection speed, and probably over 8Mbps actual download speed. That's being pessimistic.

Here you go:

adsl info expand=enabled
Modemstate : up
Operation Mode : G.992.5 Annex A
Channel Mode : interleaved
Number of resets : 4

Vendor Local Remote
Country : 0f 00
Vendor : TMMB µ VendorSpecific : 0000 0000
StandardRevisionNr : 00 00

Downstream Upstream
Margin [dB] : 6.5 5.5
Attenuation [dB] : 37.0 15.0
OutputPower [dBm] : 0.0 12.5

Intrinsic/Actual Bandwidth %
Upstream : 100
Downstream : 53

Available Bandwidth Cells/s Kbit/s
Downstream : 15688 6652
Upstream : 2658 1127


Transfer statistics
Errors
Received FEC : 281637
Received CRC : 20
Received HEC : 15
Transmitted FEC : 7
Transmitted CRC : 2
Transmitted HEC : 1

Near end failures since reset
Loss of frame: 11 failures
Loss of signal: 3 failures
Loss of power: 0 failures
Errored seconds: 64 seconds
Near end failures last 15 minutes
Loss of frame: 0 seconds
Loss of signal: 0 seconds
Loss of power: 0 seconds
Errored seconds: 0 seconds
Near end failures current day
Errored seconds: 21 seconds
Near end failures previous day
Errored seconds: 43 seconds
{Administrator}=

The 4 re-sets reflect the 3 test that Newnet ran yesterday (it appears to drop the connection when they do this) and the fourth one is when the rx SNRM dropped (or is this "drooped"?) from 15dB to 6dB today.

Edited by MrBeeline (Wed 22-Feb-12 21:55:28)

That's showing a connection speed of 6652kbps. You should be getting over 12Mbps from those stats.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

That's showing a connection speed of 6652kbps. You should be getting over 12Mbps from those stats.

Indeed! I continue to be a confused man.

I just noticed the following in the above stats:

Intrinsic/Actual Bandwidth %
Upstream : 100
Downstream : 53

And what I am getting is around 50% of 12Mbps....

Edited by MrBeeline (Wed 22-Feb-12 22:08:28)

Interesting. A figure I've never seen before.

What router is it, and have you any others that work on ADSL2+?

It's the speedtouch 585v6 ... it managed well the first time round. Well at least for the previous 10 day training period. The only other that I have is an old Zoom X6 (non Broadcom chipset) and it never seemed to do very well on this line the last time I tried it (probably a couple of years ago).

I Was originally going to purchase a shiny new router for when I went 2+ This is what the Billion 7800N was for (and God did I spend some hours reading reviews!). Sent it back though, as it "appeared" not to get on with my exchange / line as well as the speedtouch (premature return maybe!?).

Only other option, is buy something else. And there I struggle to find something that suits. Broadcom chipset in modem is what most people seem to recommend. But everyone I look at seems to get -ve reviews and I end up not being able to make my mind up. Local Comet/Curry's have only Netgear, or Belkin and there seem a fair few -ve comments on everyone I've looked at on Amazon! I did think of a TP-Link TD-W8960N which though a budget router, does on the whole get +ve real world reviews and it's got a Broadcom chipset. Obviously getting one would take a couple of days. Unless you have any suggestions?

Other options are:
1) Phone jolly old Newnet again tomorrow morning. I'm pretty much on first name terms with Charles and Kirsty now!
2) Re-boot or do a hardware re-set on the router mid morning tomorrow.

Think I'll pop down stairs and get myself a whisky now.

Edited by MrBeeline (Wed 22-Feb-12 22:55:12)

Hardware reset might be a good idea.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Hardware reset might be a good idea.

Decided not to wait. I can do this with my eyes closed now!

Not a jot of difference.

So I'll give Newnet a phone tomorrow morning.

I'll let you know what happens.

Thanks yet again for you help.

I wonder if this is one of those strange profiling type things that 21cn decides to do every once in a blue moon ? You can get SNR resets done all you want, but it needs 'someone' to have a discussion with a BTw bod to have the whole shebang built again from scratch.