Orange - Be warned!

Will try and keep this short.

I have 3 orange contract phones in the family so decided to take advantage of the discounts offered by Orange broadband.

Placed order 19th Feb
Cancelled order 21st Feb after discussion with CS about line speed.
28th Feb my broadband stops working...invalid username/password
Contact ISP who get back to me on the 6th (bit rubbish) to tell me the line has been migrated away from the LLU service to BT wholesale.

Phone orange...."you did cancel the order?" response "Ah, looks like it still went though."

Grr...ok give me a MAC code...done.

MAC code back to "old" ISP - activation date 16th March.

No broadband connection for a total of 18 days because Orange did not do their job.

Contact orange and explained to numerous people (all around the world) the problem and proposed 3 possible solutions

1) Turn on my orange account so I can get broadband for the next 10 days OR
2) Give me 500mb broadband on one of my mobile accounts OR
3) pay for 10 days of BTFON access (£30) <-- I think Orange are part of this scheme anyway so it would cost them nothing

Response.
1) No can do - cessation order on the line to switch to LLU
2) Nope, cant do that.
3) Nope

They admit they made a mistake in not cancelling the migration properly but basically all they can do is say sorry.

Have put the details in a letter to customer service as all emails just bounce back with "Whoops, due to issues beyond our control we are currently unable to handle your email query"

*sigh*

Lesson learnt the hard way - I wont be jumping ship again to save a few quid.

Edited by deleted (Tue 06-Mar-12 12:59:10)

At the very least complain to ofcom. I think you can do so online.

Terrible!

You should be entitled to compensation from Orange.

Follow their formal complaints code of practice and failing that their ADR body.

In reply to a post by john2007:

At the very least complain to ofcom. I think you can do so online.

I have started the ball rolling with a letter to customer services.

Orange are a member of the Communications and Internet Services Adjudication Scheme so I will also contact them.

Well they screwed up another migration, which should have been very simple, here:

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/unhappiness/t/40978...

by performing a PSTN cease and re-provide on the OPs line without notice, leaving the OP with a cease charge from his losing ISP (Vivaciti). Incompetence, at its best.

The lesson keeps appearing in these forums, transfers between BTw-based and LLU services are a very murky world, poorly regulated. The problem is quite simply that two unco-ordinated bodies have to work in synch, your LLU provider, and BTw with whom Orange are in contract. When LLU is not involved it is a single BTO control of the whole process. Lesson: the very least you should have done was to inform both Orange and the existing LLU provider of the cancellation, and whilst your LLU provider would probably have said they could do nothing, it's a good test of their customer service. Lesson 2: when a cancellation or any other alteration of a BT service is involved there is an OpenReach order number issued, insist you have this which demonstrates the order has been acknowledged, there should also be subsequent confirmations when it has been committed and fulfilled. The order number is issued when it is put through to BT on Orange's systems, and is the same process for new orders, cancellation of either an existing order or service or any alteration to the service, which I know from experience can be done whilst you are on the telephone.

Orange take a hard commercial line. References to conciliation have a 8 week wait. Better I always found is the ISPA reference (see their website) which Orange have to respond to in 5 days, providing you do not get a response from their Complaints procedure. I've had a temporary increase in a dongle allowance to compensate for the absence of broadband as a gesture of goodwill, but I was a Home Broadband customer at the time. It's tough, but you've got no service and you're not paying for a service either (subject to any contractual notice period you have to pay for anyway). Lesson 3 is just how weak your "entitlement" to a home broadband service is.

You have checked for and cancelled any Orange DD haven't you?

The case linked to in mixt's did not involve LLU. It was a WLR line and Entanet broadband. Orange taking things into their own hands by ordering a PSTN cease when there was an incidental problem obtaining a valid MAC for the broadband element.

They seem to play dirty. Whether deliberately or through simple idiocy is another question. Your comment "Orange take a hard commercial line" is in keeping with the former.

Noted, but I think the advice to follow through on the Openreach order number/status, especially when you're trying to "undo" something, is good. I use IDNet who immediately mail through all the notifications they receive from OpenReach on any order status: excellent.

From what I can gather the Orange systems are much more basic, and I've not read of anyone receiving all the OR notifications either from any other ISP. So I assume you have to chase.

Perhaps I'm just a pessimist, but however good the system, things go wrong, often at the human interface. Checking (and with the gaining/losing ISP) does no harm if it's important to you.

Orange served me well for over 4 years when I was with them for broadband (14 years and running for mobile), it was just the physical condiiton of my ADSL line was poor. I have never said they play dirty, but like any large commercial organisation they have their rules and stick by them. Perhaps the comparison is if IDNet are fairly transparent (in that you can find out what is gong on) then Orange are rather more opaque, and it's sensible to watch things a bit more carefully.

Edited by deleted (Wed 07-Mar-12 13:40:18)

In reply to a post by smurf46:

Perhaps I'm just a pessimist, but however good the system, things go wrong, often at the human interface. Checking (and with the gaining/losing ISP) does no harm if it's important to you.

I take the point on board and will in future ensure I am kept much more in the loop.

From my experience, if I had tried digging any deeper for order numbers etc I would have been told the account has been closed and the order cancelled.

Explaining and getting past the guys in India(?) is hard enough never mind trying to find someone who is not reading from a script or who actually knows how the process works.

I finally spoke to a guy in the UK but he had no idea what LLU was or that it was not all run by BT.

The bottom line is they said they had cancelled the order and they didn't.

Sure I could have done things differently but should I be expected to?

Yes! Be warned! Don�t order broadband then 3 days later cancel the order, as you will only cause great problems, hassle and unnecessary cost for yourself.

I don�t see how the sales person on the phone can tell you what your broadband line speed will be, or are you in a non-Orange broadband network area? This will make a difference, as you will get upto 8Mbps speed not upto 20Mbps speed.

Orange have a ten-day broadband provisioning time period and must get a move on to get your connection changed over and you three days into this period cancel the order.