In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

Out of interest how does the gaining ISP know who the losing ISP is?

In the case of pure WLR3 migrations, BT Wholesale probably informs them.

In cases involving MPF, probably Openreach informs them.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I and some others are saying we would like a block facility for our own peace of mind. We may be misguided - only time will tell.

Time has told, gaining-provider led has been around for 10 years, and your WLR3 line has been "vulnerable" for all that time.

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

Im sure i read Ofcom weren't happy with this idea

Well!

Having now read the whole of General Condition 22, (see this post), it looks as though the only basis AAISP could have for their blocking flag is this:-

A1.3 Before using Cancel Other in cases of Slamming and/or Failure to Cancel, the Losing Provider shall take reasonable steps to establish that Slamming and/or Failure to Cancel has actually taken place.

from Page 96 or 17, depending whether you look at the full or extract document.

However it clearly doesn't fall within the criteria for an automatic "Cancel other" of the migration. The most they could do would be to inform the customer that they have the flag set.

Even then, it's irrelevant. They can't cancel the migration even if the customer confirms the flag and that they don't want to migrate, unless the gaining ISP has failed to cancel it when directed by the user to do so. (There are a few other criteria very unlikely to be relevant). The only normal cancellation is via the (non-)gaining ISP.

In effect, the flag doesn't work.
_{Edited to change the page numbers.}

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 22-Jun-15 21:21:37)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Having now read the whole of General Condition 22, (see this post), it looks as though the only basis AAISP could have for their blocking flag is this:-

A1.3 Before using Cancel Other in cases of Slamming and/or Failure to Cancel, the Losing Provider shall take reasonable steps to establish that Slamming and/or Failure to Cancel has actually taken place.

from Page 89.

They way I read that, in a confirmed case of slamming, the customer is under no obligation to contact the gaining ISP and the losing ISP can cancel the transfer.

AAISP most likely will automatically issue a "Cancel Other" if the customer sets a flag in their control panel, which most likely contravenes these Ofcom regulations.

I think you are basically saying what I did following the part you quote . Read A1.2 as well.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 22-Jun-15 18:44:47)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I think you are basically saying what I did following the part you quote . Read A1.2 as well.

I had a hard time working out what point you were trying to make. If you say there is not problem with the regulations because slamming is a valid reason for the losing ISP to cancel the migration, then we are both in agreement.

[chuckle]
Yes.

The point I was making was that the flag couldn't work. That's why my post became convoluted. It wasn't talking about the regulations themselves, but showing how they made the flag unable to do what AAISP say it does.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The point I was making was that the flag couldn't work. That's why my post became convoluted. It wasn't talking about the regulations themselves, but showing how they made the flag unable to do what AAISP say it does.

Ah I see. In fact I'm not sure there is a flag at wholesale level, looks like a bit of code at AAISP's end that auto-cancels migrations as soon as they are received, depending on the setting in the customer control panel. Whilst it may do the job, I'm not sure it's allowable under the regulations.

Exactly. There isn't, no doubt about that.

I've just reread the full AAISP description. I had forgotten, and by the look of things everyone else discussing it either did so or never read it in the first place from my original link, what they actually do.

They send an email that the request has been received. It is unclear what happens if the customer doesn't respond, for whatever reason. The implication is this passive response will be taken as positive affirmance of the "No migration". That isn't acceptable within the regulations.

Of course, we don't know what would be said within the email. We need an AAISP customer to do a dummy run.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 22-Jun-15 23:04:58)