Would this give a definitive answer - https://my.xilo.net/xilo/adslchecker.php

Pop the phone number in there and it comes back with "Line status: The line currently has LLU DSL. A migration must be placed, however, normal activation charges will apply."

Assuming if on BT it would say something different

While correct, it would mean many people assuming then that all GEA-FTTC is created equally in terms of throughput

The BIG bit of LLU that made it cheap was the backhaul network.

Also should be highlighted that if voice is via TalkTalk too then it will be via the TT MSAN and thus is unbundled, and the fibre link in the handover exchange joins TalkTalk network via a port on their MSAN

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Also should be highlighted that if voice is via TalkTalk too then it will be via the TT MSAN and thus is unbundled, and the fibre link in the handover exchange joins TalkTalk network via a port on their MSAN

Whilst the voice line may well be unbundled via MPF in that instance, the GEA-FTTP broadband connection would still not unbundled/LLU. Yes, they would likely be connected to the same infrastructure at the exchange, but it cannot be called LLU fibre broadband.

I think this discussion has gone from silly to ridiculous while I've been walking my dog.

FTTC/FTTP arrives at the exchange from premises and is presented to CPs via Openreach GEA. It is fed through GEA links to various CPs' MSANs. This is defined by Ofcom as VULA. GEA is in fact Openreach's implementation of VULA, not vice versa.

For anyone to suggest that TalkTalk Business which only ever has presence at an exchange via a TalkTalk MSAN would then at some stage use WBC/WBMC is just nonsense. For someone connected to that MSAN for their FTTC to have a TalkTalk IP address implies to me that they are also on TalkTalk Business backhaul at all stages. If simply using TT Tails, then the IP address would belong to either someone like Daisy, or the ISP providing the service to the end user.

I may of course be wrong on that, but it needs someone in a position to know to show me. Simply hypothesising that it may not be the case is a waste of time for both parties when everything we have seen over several years, plus many such setups, strongly suggest I'm right.

TT backhaul, as I have said, could very possibly use dark fibre from BTW or Openreach. That is nothing whatsoever to do with BT Wholesale "backhaul" as we understand it, i.e. WBC/WBMC/IPStream Connect.

We started arguing about professor973's connection. He is on Pulse8 FTTC. His IP address belongs to TalkTalk. For his connection to go down between his home and the exchange directly involves Openreach. From there on it is TalkTalk backhaul and routers. The only possible BT Group involvement would be dark fibre rental.

Since you hit reply to my post, I'll reply. I was simply saying that TalkTalk Business via FTTC GEA is not LLU, regardless of what equipment it is connected to at the exchange. I made no reference to WBC/WBMC.

It's VULA. Virtual Unbundled Local Access. I think you were ignoring the context, which is entirely about whether the Prof's line is LLU from the exchange onwards .

The logic of what you say is that TalkTalk and Sky non BT Wholesale backhaul cannot be described as LLU, as they aren't local loop.

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 16-Jul-15 00:21:59)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

It's VULA. Virtual Unbundled Local Access. I think you were ignoring the context, which is entirely about whether the Prof's line is LLU from the exchange onwards .

Well I did also say that backhaul is not part of the local loop either.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The logic of what you say is that TalkTalk and Sky non BT Wholesale backhaul cannot be described as LLU, as they aren't local loop.

Yes, pretty much, because backhaul is not part of the local loop. I'm only really saying it because the term LLU is somewhat overused and applied to things it is not. LLU is MPF and SMPF, it is not GEA FTTC or backhaul.

I believe the distinction is important, not least because at least one ISP has argued for BT to offer an LLU FTTC offering.

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

I believe the distinction is important, not least because at least one ISP has argued for BT to offer an LLU FTTC offering.

Ohhhh!!! Please tell .

I believe you, and it's hilarious.

(Technically speaking of course, WBC/WBMC/IPStream connect are LLU at the exchange end just as much as TT, Sky and Vodafone are).

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 16-Jul-15 00:38:25)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Ohhhh!!! Please tell .

I believe you, and it's hilarious.

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2013/07/ofcom-u...

Why hilarious?

Right. Yes, I remember that (now) from when it came out, but that isn't what I thought you meant. I didn't read LLU FTTC as meaning SLU. I thought you meant something in the exchange.

I think Mark's "request by Sky Broadband (BSkyB) for BT to offer a new unbundled (LLU) superfast broadband (FTTC) product" wording is a sort of dumbing down, although he does later make it clear, after his Ofcom quote, what the Sky request is about.

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 16-Jul-15 00:58:40)