Well it's not as simple as that. They do own their own fibre network, due to acquisitions in the past.

But it doesn't on the whole go all the way into the BT exchanges so they always have to rent some backhaul for the last bit into the exchange. And if you're not in a major city, chances are Sky's own fibre isn't nearby so they will have to rent 100% of it.

Ethernet Backhaul Direct is what they call it. Here's some info

Vodafone possibly have quite a lot, having bought C & W who I believe laid a lot of cabling alongside railway lines.

Enjoy your fantasy . We don't want you lying awake at night worrying about the real world.

I think it is you in fantasy land. Stuff is done with systems that have no button for ringing a mate up.

However it is you that has made the accusation and the hollow laugh. You need to back this up as it is a serious accusation. One that needs evidence taking to the regulator.

You owe it to the entire industry to report your evidence or you need to admit you were making stuff up.

Sky have a network and they will have Points Of Presence like all the altcos.

They will rent circuits off of other providers to get back from many exchanges to their Points of Presence. This may be from Openreach, other providers, or other providers that in turn rent circuits from Openreach.

Who is running backhaul from an exchange is actually easy to work out, you just look at what names are stamped on the manhole covers outside.

Edited by deleted (Fri 29-Jan-16 21:21:39)

How, in this most perfect of all perfect worlds you both seem to inhabit, could an Ofcom wish and a Chinese wall prevent something that has existed since the first day commerce existed, which was a few thousand years BC?

Informal communication exists. It is used. BT itself holds conferences where informal networking thrives. It exists between BT Group employees and the outside world, and there is no way it does not exist within BT Group.

That is my real world, not your fantasy one.

Rather than my giving proof it happens, which could endanger a person's or some persons' employment as was pointed out earlier, I defy you to find any evidence whatsoever that it doesn't. To prove anything can't happen, you need evidence that the prevention systems are foolproof.

Do you know of a single system depending on human interaction that is or has been foolproof, throughout world history? Even before the myriad channels that modern communications have opened up.

No! You don't.

Lots of words and as with other posters not a shred of evidence to either prove or disprove such interaction occurs.

Absolutely . But the other two are adamant that it does not and 100% never could.

The world just isn't like that. Links between fully independent companies aren't. Links between individuals of any interacting group of people aren't. BT Group is, according to them, unique in the whole history of the world.

The probability of that is ...?

Where did I ever say it could never happen? What I said is that there is no evidence of anything actual untowards having happened or any evidence of any damage. Oh, and you said you weren't accusing BT or breaching the undertakings, In fact what you described is exactly that - a breach of undertakings as there are explicit bans on exchange of privileged access to commercial information.

In contrast, you described the relationship as too cosy and something ought to be done about it, with particular reference to BTW and Consumer. Quite why you chose that particular combination, rather than (say) BTW and OR, I've no idea as surely it's subject to the same issues.

In any event, unless there's some remedy you have in mind for this too cosy relationship (and I can't see anything short of full structural separation satisfying that, and even then, some will say historic connections will mean that there will still be a cosy relationship), then I'm at a loss as to what the point is.

All I did was state a problem, not a solution. It is you who got all uptight saying there isn't any such problem, as employees would link almost under threat of death if they did . There is nothing else to discuss, now that you accept the problem is there and will be whatever is or isn't done in terms of restructuring.

Ultimately, if there were a complete split if all companies and divisions, which won't happen, the personal links would decrease over several years to normal inter-personal networking levels between companies that trade with each other. Such links are inevitable, but more so in the BT structure due to its history and inter-functional briefings.

What a fuss you have made over a fact of life .