I've avoided saying who the ISPs involved are because, who knows, they each might end up doing the right thing in the end. I've no desire to tarnish their reputations, only to describe what's actually happened thus far. Perhaps all I should say is that the gaining ISP is a well-known independently-run one, with a very good reputation, and which runs from offices in Herts. It's not one of the huge players.

To double-check, I've now e-mailed the gainer to make it absolutely clear that it's a migration that I ordered, not a cease-and-provide.

Yeh, the terminology here can definitely cause confusion. Although I was aware from the outset not to give any instruction to the loser to cease the line connection (rather, to terminate or cease the account, and that I'd be transferring to another ISP), as you can see it's all too easy to end up using the word "cease", even though meant in a different way. As I understand it, the loser should specifically ask me, once they hear from the gainer, whether the change is in accordance with my requirements. Clearly, that's useful in preventing misunderstandings from happening. But that's not happened thus far.

In an e-mail reply to me the other day, the gainer told me that the loser normally sees the proposed new tag and so there's no need to formally notify the loser of the pending change. The slightly worrying thing is that the gainer expressed that to me as "our orders will usually inform them the line is moving away from them; they should then usually contact you to confirm if this is correct". That by itself is ambiguous because what's meant by "the line is moving away from them"?

Bear in mind that the new account doesn't begin until 3rd Feb, when Openreach are due to make the requisite mods at the exchange and street cabinet. Remember, this move involves also a change from ADSL to VDSL.

Edited by deleted (Tue 24-Jan-17 20:04:38)

I've migrated away from BT as well and I have been told all early termination and cessation charges have been removed due to the price rise.

I was told I could either migrate or cease my service and phone line, neither would incurr a charge.

From what I think you have said I feel that any problems you might experience are probably down to yourself and not the two ISPs. You should never have contacted the losing ISP instead of which it appears that you did and this may well have led them to believing that this was a request to cease your connection. Since you appear to have initiated the action by speaking to the losing ISP and telling them that you are leaving I am unclear as to why you feel they should be informing you that the gaining ISP is taking over your line since the losing ISP's records quite possibly have you recorded as a cease.

It would have been better to follow the OFCOM code and deal solely with the gaining ISP. That you are moving from ADSL to FTTC is immaterial, the same procedure applies when moving from ADSL to FTTC as it does for ADSL to ADSL and FTTC to FTTC with the process being gainer led throughout.

Price rise leavers are another category

MCM,

I did, in fact, do exactly what you say I should have done - the very first thing I did was to contact the gaining ISP to say that I wanted to move from my existing ISP to them. So, I followed the Ofcom rules absolutely correctly by doing that. However, in due course the losing ISP never contacted me. I therefore had to re-contact the gaining ISP to ask why. They maintained that they didn't have to formally notify the loser. Although I queried that, it was left for me to have to contact the loser to at least tell them that an order for a migration had been placed. If I hadn't done that I could have possibly been waiting around for a response from the loser forever. Remember, there's just 10 days (currently less now) to complete the whole thing. In fact, as matters stand I've still not received a formal request from the loser for me to verify that I want to move and that the order in place is correct in what it's asking for. As merely the end-customer, I'm not privy to the so-called tag information. If the ISPs themselves don't appear to be following the rules as normally understood, what do you expect me to do? Just sit back and ignore it?

Edited by deleted (Tue 24-Jan-17 22:46:13)

A no response from the loser means the migration happens, they would need to positively respond to say the end-user has objected to the migration. So if the letter was sent and lot by the post, the migration would go ahead.

In the migration scenario it is highly likely the retailer would not be contacting the losing provider, but is done as part of the placing of the migration order with the wholesaler.

Some providers have a track record of messing things up more than others. Only waiting four days may have been the issue, and the wording from the gaining provider if correct, suggests they may have gone ahead with a provide rather than a migrate. Some providers do this and play a little loose with the rules.

I did, in fact, do exactly what you say I should have done

You may well have done initially but contacting the losing ISP so quickly after placing your order may well have disturbed things. I still fail to understand why you even contacted the losing ISP since the only reason they have for contacting you at that point is to let you know that your line is being moved and since you had initiated the move that is what you wanted to happen. It's those whose line is being moved against their wishes (slammed) that have the most to gain from receiving a latter from the losing ISP. Four days is very little time given the probability of the post having been sent second class and the possibility of it then being delayed by a day or two.

Absolutely right.

There are as far as I can see only two reasons why the losing provider is supposed to contact the customer.

The prime one is as you say, to prevent slamming. The secondary one allows the customer to change their mind within the ten days - which in practice is more like eight. The notification from the gaining ISP should give that cut-off date when it becomes too late to stop Openreach or BT Wholesale.

In reply to a post by meditator:

Incidentally, do you think I'm correct about the DD mechanism - that it's up to them to cancel the arrangement, not me? If me, how do I do it?

You, as the account holder, always have control of any direct debit applied to a bank account. When I decide to finish a direct debit, for any reason, I just go online and cancel it there and then. From that point it is no longer a valid mandate, i.e. if your bank paid out using it they would be liable for the losses. Read the DD blurb.

If I haven't informed the company. usually they write/email me within a couple of days. From that moment onwards they can threaten / plead whatever they like. I have control of access to MY bank account. But usually I do notify them beforehand.

Credit card continuous payment authority are a totally different headache but I seem to recalll clamp downs by the regulator on companies abusing them.

In reply to a post by meditator:

I did, in fact, do exactly what you say I should have done

IMHO, you "generally" did the correct thing!!

However, my concern is that you may have accidentally confused the issue by some of your "terminology"!!

Unfortunately there is a "bureaucracy" involved that can get very easily de-railed if any misunderstanding occurs.

If, when you contacted your "Losing-ISP", you used the words "Terminate" or "Cancel" (regardless of the context you used them) it "could" be taken to mean that the Losing-ISP thinks you are simply Terminating/Cancelling (& perhaps subsequently placing a separate NEW-Order on A.N.Other ISP) rather than a migration.

Such a misunderstanding would screw up a Migration process!!

(NB:- Dependant on the Losing ISP, Terminating/Cancelling "may" invoke charges, whereas Migrations usually don't)!

Under the situation, I would suggest making a further approach to your Losing-ISP (& hoping that you don't simply get a "Jobsworth") & making sure that he understands that the discussion has ALWAYS been about "Migration" & NOT a total termination of Broadband provision!