In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Running both together means a comprise, alas in the UK that would mean killing LLU ADSL2+ and the two big suppliers don't seem to be volunteering that

How many UK exchanges have only BT equipment without any Sky or TalkTalk LLU equipment? These are likely to be the same locations where LR-VDSL will be of use and ADSL should be turned off ASAP in those locations. What is the total number of lines on those exchanges?

Always more complex

Might be worth looking at if any significant differences for

0 to 500m from exchange
500 to 1000m
1000 to 1500m
1500m to 2000m
2000 to 2500m
2500m to 3000m
3000m +

Gives a reasonable size grouping and show the basic differences if there is any observable difference for users.

Off top of head around 2000 exchanges with only BT wholesale based ADSL/ADSL2+ services but amounts to perhaps 4% to 5% of UK premises

NOTE: We never count lines but premises, though some are pressuring to also do population

Maybe this is where OFCOM should intervene and instruct all operators that on exchange XXX cabinets L, M N ... ADSL shall be ceased and VDSL implemented for all users.

BT (or really just Openreach) aren't able to dictate that all lines must be services from the cabinet as everything has to be approved by the NICC, which is a technical authority with representation from all the LLU operators as well as BT. It has the authority of OFCOM behind it. That means that if LLU operators think any decision will materially damage their interests they can potentially delay and such implementation and it would require Ofcom to intervene.

Bear in mind this doesn't just impact LLU operators but those who use BTW exchange based DSLAM equipment too as they would have to buy a GEA based product and that would not be transparent. Even if only some of the cabinets in an exchange were switched in this way then it cold impact on the economics of lines left on ADSL.

I'm sure some elements of this will happen, but you can bet that there will be a lot of objections too and accusations of bending the market in favour of OR's GEA products.

See my later post: http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/t/4526732-r... where I suggest OFCOM should intervene or make a decision.

Do you see ADSL2+ getting switched off anytime soon?

Seems it would be a massive undertaking to do so. Everyone on ADSL2+ will need new routers, possibly rewiring internally depending on their setup and of course a price increase

No, another few years before it happens in bulk, but exchanges where ADSL is and ADSL2+ never made it are likely to be in the firing line in next year or two

Yep, that has been in my statements to any OFCOM or local council consultation for the last year or so.

I got an idea.

We let the LLU players keep their ancient adsl2+ services but we also wont be applying power masks on VDSL, so they can keep them but at very low performance levels

Then customers will migrate away and force the issue.