You really think his line with G.INP that usually runs at 65Mb on a 3dB profile just coincidentally got banded for the very 1st time at the exact same level as an OpenReach product, on the exact day that Talktalk took over the line?

Don't you think it's much more likely Talktalk have incorrectly provisioned the line?
It literally happened the day they took the line over.

It isn't fraudulent.
You don't order an OpenReach product from an ISP.
You order broadband from the ISP.
Talktalk advertise on their website that is up to 80Mb, but they provide an estimate, and a minimum. If they provision the line above the minimum they are meeting their obligations.
It's exactly what other ISP's do.

Possible the line is banded but chances are it's provisioned on 55/10.
A simple regrade will fix it.

Edit: just read this

In reply to a post by uno:

If they have placed on 55/10, this would tally with the estimated Openreach data for this line.

It makes even more sense if his estimates are around that level.

And wow Tim... Your sync speed (and estimates) really have dropped in the last couple years.
I remember your thread on kitz when you got your drop wire replaced and were nudging the full 80/20.

Edited by j0hn83 (Sat 21-Nov-20 12:17:27)

I respectfully suggest you get in touch with the TalkTalk Business provisioning/network team. They will tell you exactly the same thing they told me: they provision ALL new lines on the 80/20 profile irrespective of speed estimates. Exactly the same as Fluidone do. TTB do not have the 55/10 profile in their ordering systems, it’s only been 80/20 ever since they launched FTTC around 6 years ago. So it’s close to impossible for them to order 55/10 when their ordering systems show no such profile/product for their direct customers.

I get that those on low speed estimates won’t care (or notice) one jot if they’re on the 40/10 profile instead of 80/20 - I really do. But that’s not the point I’m trying the make. I’m simply saying that TTB just have 1 fttc product available to order in their systems : the 80/20 product.

[email protected]
or
[email protected]
(can’t remember which)

Edited by deleted (Sat 21-Nov-20 12:56:51)

In reply to a post by Highland76:

TTB do not have the 55/10 profile in their ordering systems, it’s only been 80/20 ever since they launched FTTC around 6 years ago. So it’s close to impossible for them to order 55/10 when their ordering systems show no such profile/product for their direct customers.

Respectfully, that's a load of tosh. The customer doesn't order 80/20. They order broadband at the estimates the ISP quotes.

Why are so you defensive of your ISP's in thinking that they couldn't possibly make a mistake in provisioning?

Of course they can order 55/10.
They can order and tier they like.
If you've ever looked at an OpenReach "ordering system" you would realise how stupid your comment is.

The customer facing ordering page gives the customer no option to order 55/10 but of course Talktalk can order it and to suggest they can't is just you being very uninformed and making assumptions.

I’m simply saying that TTB just have 1 fttc product available to order in their systems : the 80/20 product

It matters not that they sell a single product
I already made the point that Sky now only have a single FTTC product for sale, sold with an average speed of 63Mb/s.
They can provision on any tier they like though.

There's nothing to stop Talktalk doing exactly the same.

I predict they have. You seem to think it's impossible.
You have an ISP rep a couple posts above telling you it's very possible.

It makes no sense provisioning a customer with very low estimates on 80/20.
Bangers estimates are around 55/10.

The DLM somewhat resets / banding tends to be REMOVED on many ISP migrations.

The line has changed profile on the day the new ISP took over the line...
Just think about that for a minute and remove the idea from your head that Talktalk can't provision a line on 55/10 (they can).
You'll come to the same conclusion.

Happy to return and say i told you so when Banger confirms the line is incorrectly provisioned.

An RTT test run by the ISP will confirm the line profile.

You seem to be having trouble understanding that an ISP can only order from Openreach what’s in their ordering systems. In other words their INTERNAL systems. How can TTB order a 55/10 service when it’s not in their systems?

Comparing TTB to Sky and BT Retail is like comparing apples to oranges as every ISPs ordering systems are independent of each of other. This is nothing to do with Openreach but all to do with in-house ordering systems. They can’t order something which doesn’t exist. But please don’t take my word for it, drop TTB an email.

Funny that.

https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/t/4558417-li...

You yourself concede in the thread i just linked above (using your old username) that BT Business only sell 80/20, yet some how managed to provision a line on 40/10.

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

Strange thing is BT Business don't even do an 'up to' 40/10 tier on FTTC based services. They've put you on a service which they don't sell!!

https://business.bt.com/products/broadband/

I wouldn't let this go easily OP, as others have said sending a message to the CEO office will be the quickest way of getting this resolved.

[email protected]

Of course it can happen. Of course Talktalk can provision on 40/10 or 55/10.

Just like BT Business can, or anyone else.

Edit: if it isn't clear to you, the example i have provided above is an ISP you yourself say only sells 80/20, who provisions everyone on 80/20, yet has provisioned someone on 40/10 (it's because they have low estimates).

It's somehow impossible that Talktalk could have done this? Really?

You're not even debating that it's more likely to be DLM banding. You are simply flat out claiming it's not possible for Talktalk Business to provision at anything other than 80/20.
You are wrong on that assumption.

That's a 3 and a half year old thread. The practice has become much more common since then.

It's a practice i don't agree with. I'm just pointing out that it happens, and you're arguing it somehow can't for reasons i don't understand.
You've clearly been part of threads where this has happened.

Edited by j0hn83 (Sat 21-Nov-20 14:13:19)

In reply to a post by Highland76:

So what do TTB have to lose by putting a customer with low estimated speeds on the 80/20 product?

It would lower the average speed that customers on the 80/20 package get. As this is what you are no forced to advertise if you get rid of all your customers who are just over 40Mbps you will improved the average you can advertise.

It's perverse, but it is what it is.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

And wow Tim... Your sync speed (and estimates) really have dropped in the last couple years.
I remember your thread on kitz when you got your drop wire replaced and were nudging the full 80/20.

Unfortunately I suspect the OP had/has perhaps an intermittent fault on his line. A SFI visit was arranged approximately one month ago by uno but the appointment was cancelled by the OP because the issue appeared to resolve itself. In that instance perhaps the SFI visit could have proved fruitless and expensive.

The current downstream and upstream sync speeds do perhaps seem related due to past and/or present issues. Would a reset of the line normally be undertaken when the full migration from SMPF to MPF takes place? In this case perhaps there would be improved sync speeds if one excludes the possibility of a 55/10 provision on his TTB account?

And wow Tim... Your sync speed (and estimates) really have dropped in the last couple years.
I remember your thread on kitz when you got your drop wire replaced and were nudging the full 80/20.

Ah yes those were the days before cross talk. My TTB estimate is 64 down pretty similar to the Uno estimate when I signed up in 2017. As I am only a couple of days from an Engineer visit I will see what Monday afternoon brings.

Current BT estimates.

https://ibb.co/0mNDGQz

Maybe you are interested to see what I get from the Andrews and Arnold checker:

You are connected to cabinet 18..."Superfast" VDSL (Fibre to the cabinet) up to 80Mb/s

For your location, forecast download sync speed is 60-80Mb/s and forecast upload sync speed is 19-20Mb/s.

Note: This checker works with both the BT Wholesale and TalkTalk Business carriers..

I'm probably about 200 yards from the cabinet and not sure about the potential from cross-talk problems. However, as I mentioned to you previously, I'm not confident regarding the condition of the 50 year old D-side underground copper pairs so sticking with uno TTB ADSL SMPF for the time being...

Hope your anticipated TTB MPF migration works out OK on Monday.

Edited by 4M2 (Sat 21-Nov-20 21:40:09)