In reply to a post by zyborg47:

4G is pretty good here, depending on who is providing the service, Vodafone is awful, I use smarty, and they use the three network, and it is good.
3G is ok as well, I switched 4G off on my phone for over a week to see if I could manage with 3G and to be honest it made no difference, mainly because I use my Wi-fi here and if I go to friends, I use their Wi-fi. so it was only in town or when going for walks that I really used the mobile network.

All the networks have reduced the capacity on 3G to increase capacity on 4G, as the 4G technology (LTE) can handle more phones connected per mast than 3G can.

I feel there is little need for 5G on mobile phones, I may have to get a new phone soon, but it won't have 5G on, not worth paying the extra for something I will never use.
By the time 5G do come here, I expect I would be replacing that phone again, I normally keep my phones for 4 years or more.

People said the same 9 years ago about 4G, and said 3G is good enough. However 3G would not have been able to cope with the massive increase in usage. (3G is actually an awful technology)

We were told that 2G would be switched off and yet it is not, granted three have switched it off as I know, but my old Nokia 3310 will still work with a Vodafone sim in.

Only in the US has 2G been turned off. The rest of the world will turn off 3G long before. What HAS happened in the UK is that 2G and 3G capacity is massively reduced. If everyone switched back to feature phones that did voice/SMS only, the networks would not be able to cope.

Maybe, but the main reason 5G gets the faster speed is because of the higher frequencies. We also still need backwards compatibility, people still have equipment that uses 3G only. Someone at work use a normal non-smart phone, it uses 3G and there are a lot of people that still only use a normal phone.

People with 3G only phones are now suffering much worse performance (in large towns and cities at least) due to most networks now on half of less capacity. E.g. the Dual Channel (DC) HSPA/HSPA+ services have been cut down to signal channel.

It isn't all about frequency it is possible to have high speeds on 4G and 5G on lower frequencies, Ofcom has just licensed the 700 MHz band, so we will see what comes of that. What is important is channel width.

But that is the U.S, or is it the same here?

Same everywhere very sadly, the examples are from the US.

So what was all this, we will need masts in lamppost about when we first heard about 5G? Surly putting 5G in lower frequencies is going to lower the speed? I admit I have not read up much about 5g for a while, as there is not really any point, I doubt we will see 5G here for a few years and even if we do, I will not be buying a 5G phone.

If you're an Android fan, you will probably get 5G capability for free in the next handset.

mmWave which is frequencies of 20 GHz or higher is where the idea of a mast in lampposts. The US is experimenting with these super high frequencies (I think they are using 38 GHz) but the range is very limited. Speeds of 2 to 3 Gbit/sec have been seen, but only if you are directly opposite the mast, with no hope indoors. This technology is not licensed in the UK.

I agree, but I hate openreach as a company, as there is no way to contact them if there is a problem, and you have to rely on your provider and no doubt that will be the same for openreach fibre as well. i do like the idea of one network and being able to choose different providers, but we need to be able to contact the company in charge of the network.

The wholesale model is so much better than the US model where if you want to change ISP you have to move town, or even state. (Hence one reason for Starlink). The cable firm with wires in the ground is the only one most people can get in the US. The DSL technologies didn't work due to distance, and FTTC/VDSL was never really deployed for cost reasons. (Many people happy with cable and 200 to 300 Mbps speeds).

As I have said in other threads, I have until at least January to make up my mind as I in contract with plusnet until then, that will give me time to see how reliable Zzoomm is, get peoples opinion on it here and how much hassle it is to install and see if Matthew Hare flogs it.

Good luck with that one!

I have been having a gander at the Oppo range of phones the A72 is around £220, there is a OPPO Reno4 Z with 5G for £250, but I doubt I would go that high.
To be honest as I have said in another thread I dislike all the phones on the market, but my little p10 lite, now take over 8 hours to charge from 50 %, I have it on charge now.

I have a OnePlus Nord which I think is the sister company. Its a good phone.

Price is what i care about.

For me it is price & reliability once it works. I moved from FTTC to Virgin Media cable because my uplink on FTTC was too slow for my needs as it had dropped from 9 Mbps originally down to 3 Mbps.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

All the networks have reduced the capacity on 3G to increase capacity on 4G, as the 4G technology (LTE) can handle more phones connected per mast than 3G can.

3G was ok here, but then this is a small city.

People said the same 9 years ago about 4G, and said 3G is good enough. However 3G would not have been able to cope with the massive increase in usage. (3G is actually an awful technology)

What do you mean 3G is an awful technology? It was only when I got the p10 lite that I updated to 4G, if my old Nexus 4 was still working correctly, I would still be using it, saying that I dug it out a couple of days back to try something on it and boy is it slow compared to my p10 lite
Crazy how much you notice it when going back to a slower device. But I can cope with 3G for what I do on my phone, I don't watch videos or download huge files or play games, I browse now and again, send emails, send text, make calls and use a couple of apps for some smart home devices, like putting my heating on or getting my coffee machine to switch on when I am on my home from work and is it. Oh, I do listen to music now and again. 3G handles that no problem.

which is why I said I have no reason for 5G.

Only in the US has 2G been turned off. The rest of the world will turn off 3G long before. What HAS happened in the UK is that 2G and 3G capacity is massively reduced. If everyone switched back to feature phones that did voice/SMS only, the networks would not be able to cope.

I think older smart meters still uses 2G, so to get them using another better they would need to be updated, I know that the modem could be changed in them, depending on if an updated modem is produced for them.

I would love to see what would happen if 4G went down and only 3G was available.

People with 3G only phones are now suffering much worse performance (in large towns and cities at least) due to most networks now on half of less capacity. E.g. the Dual Channel (DC) HSPA/HSPA+ services have been cut down to signal channel.

I am not in a large town or city,

It isn't all about frequency it is possible to have high speeds on 4G and 5G on lower frequencies, Ofcom has just licensed the 700 MHz band, so we will see what comes of that. What is important is channel width.

I realise it is to do with channel width as well, but I also thought the frequencies was to do with it as well.
So more money for the government, I hope this time the 5G don't muck things up like 4G did with some TV sets.
I still think 5G is a money making con, mainly for the government, I doubt most people will notice any difference what so ever.

Same everywhere very sadly, the examples are from the US.

Fair enoough

If you're an Android fan, you will probably get 5G capability for free in the next handset.

I would not say I am an Android fan, Android phones are available at sensible prices and not stupid prices like the Iphone, and yes I know there are Android phones available at stupid prices as well. I do prefer the Android OS than IOS, saying that if there was a linux phone out there that could run the apps I wanted it to at a decent price I would go for it.
not sure what you mean for free, because at the moment 5G phones are more expensive, the OPPO phones i was on about the 5G one is another £30 ish.

mmWave which is frequencies of 20 GHz or higher is where the idea of a mast in lampposts. The US is experimenting with these super high frequencies (I think they are using 38 GHz) but the range is very limited. Speeds of 2 to 3 Gbit/sec have been seen, but only if you are directly opposite the mast, with no hope indoors. This technology is not licensed in the UK.

I see, so all the stuff about 5G being in frequencies range that could cause more health problems is rubbish? If so then why have our council refused permission to a network to stick up a 5G mast?

I am not saying that 5G cause health problems, but there is a fair bit about it and if the masts were too close to people I can not see then being healthy

The wholesale model is so much better than the US model where if you want to change ISP you have to move town, or even state. (Hence one reason for Starlink). The cable firm with wires in the ground is the only one most people can get in the US.

Oh yes, I know about the U.S system. My cousin is in a dispute with her provider and she says the system is stupid and we have it much better over here.

The DSL technologies didn't work due to distance, and FTTC/VDSL was never really deployed for cost reasons. (Many people happy with cable and 200 to 300 Mbps speeds).

I realise DSL technologies are not good for distance, ADSL for a start was pretty slow here, max I could get was 3Mb/s if i was lucky, but that is mainly due to the fact my line is longer than it should be as it goes to the old exchange and then doubles back to the newer exchange. FTTC/VDSL is better, but I am still a fair distance away from the cabinet.
We will never have cable here, not sure if I would want it. There was a time when I wish we had Virgin, but looking at the prices they now charge and the complaints I am glad it never came here.

Good luck with that one!

I don't want Matthew Hare to flog it, but that is the worry I have that he will, and we will end up with Talk Talk or something like it.

I have a OnePlus Nord which I think is the sister company. Its a good phone.

I am sure it is, I just don't like the way phones have gone.

For me it is price & reliability once it works. I moved from FTTC to Virgin Media cable because my uplink on FTTC was too slow for my needs as it had dropped from 9 Mbps originally down to 3 Mbps.

I get 9 up and Zzoomm is no different at base prices, to get a faster upload speed it is another tenner a month, so £29 a month is 100Mb/s, plus another tenner will get the same speed up as down.
the fastest speed they do is 2GB/s

As i said we will see what happens, I have 9-10 months to make up my mind, by that time they may be up here by then. I was chatting to some engineers, and they said they may be up my way in six months.

Don't get me wrong it is a great thing for the city and I am shocked it is happening, but i have to decide if I really need to pay the extra for it, but then if Plusnet don't give me a good offer thent the price will not be that much higher

i have a deal with plusnet for £23 a month, normal price is around £29, so if they don't offer me a deal for £23 again, then I may as well go to Zzoomm, that is if I can be bothered with the hassle.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

3G was ok here, but then this is a small city.

I'm in a town of approx 45k, and yes 3G works, but it is being drawn down. I would advise anyone with a 3G only phone to look at an upgrade.

What do you mean 3G is an awful technology? It was only when I got the p10 lite that I updated to 4G, if my old Nexus 4 was still working correctly, I would still be using it, saying that I dug it out a couple of days back to try something on it and boy is it slow compared to my p10 lite

2G and 3G were designed by the telecoms industry. 4G and later are designed by the IT industry working with the telecoms industry. 3G is circuit switched, in the same way 2G is, and your land line service. Think of it as a dial up modem (or ISDN which is faster) you have to make the connection, send the data, disconnect. Whilst you are connected, the modem at the internet provider is not usable by anybody else.

This means when WhatsApp or iMessage wants to send a notification to the handset it has to take up a full session to get the small amount of information across, and then destroy the session.

4G is known as Long Term Evolution for a reason. It is packet based, which is the same as internet traffic using TCP/IP, and this means your phone can be sent a notification at the same time as another thousand phones.

Now as more and more people have mobile phones (Ofcom estimate we have about 190% rate, where a lot of people have more than one) each phone is sitting "connected" to the mast, waiting for a call, or a notification to arrive. Even when it is just in standby on your table.

With 3G a cell site sector can only hold a certain number, around 400, of devices connected. With 4G the cell site sector can handle 4,000 (or more) devices connected at the same time. This dramatic leap forward is how the mobile networks have coped with the increasing use.

3G also has a crazy feature called Cell Breathing, when the mast is under load, it reduces its radio transmit power, so if you are on the edge of signal reception, you lose signal completely. 2G, 4G, and 5G do not do this.

3G handles that no problem.

So what you are saying is you don't need speed, and a 2 to 5 Mbps connection is enough for you.

3G vs 4G isn't about speed to the networks it is about capacity. Being able to give everyone a service good enough to meet their needs. This path continues with 5G.

Don't expect 3G to remain due to its other faults, but you should find all phones sold now have 4G LTE capability, and can easily give you "3G style speeds".

which is why I said I have no reason for 5G.

And that makes sense, 4G isn't going anywhere, by the time the networks want to get rid of 4G, you will have bought a phone with 5G support for a very low cost. This will be years away.

I think older smart meters still uses 2G, so to get them using another better they would need to be updated, I know that the modem could be changed in them, depending on if an updated modem is produced for them.

The smart meters are supposed to be moving away from mobile phone networks to the Digital Communications Company which is a) cheaper, and b) much lower frequency, for low data rate. That is part of the SMETS2 specification. Mobile networks was always an interim idea, but maybe for 10 to 15 years whilst DCC gets its part up and running.

I would love to see what would happen if 4G went down and only 3G was available.

It has happened, and people cry as their phones don't work! One of the reasons the UK has 4 independent networks. (and they are still independent despite sharing mast sites and metal towers).

I am not in a large town or city,

Neither am I, but I can see the capacity on 3G is half from my diagnostic apps.

I realise it is to do with channel width as well, but I also thought the frequencies was to do with it as well.
So more money for the government, I hope this time the 5G don't muck things up like 4G did with some TV sets.

That wasn't a 4G thing, just a choice of frequency and the 800 band was planned for 4G across Europe a long time before. The problem was poorly designed older televisions did not expect frequencies designed for TV back in the 1920s would ever change.

I still think 5G is a money making con, mainly for the government, I doubt most people will notice any difference what so ever.

Think of it as the electronic equivalent of adding roads to the M25 or M6. It allows more lorries to travel along at the same time. It does not make the dinner, or fly people to the moon, it is just a radio network.

I would not say I am an Android fan, Android phones are available at sensible prices and not stupid prices like the Iphone, and yes I know there are Android phones available at stupid prices as well. I do prefer the Android OS than IOS, saying that if there was a linux phone out there that could run the apps I wanted it to at a decent price I would go for it.
not sure what you mean for free, because at the moment 5G phones are more expensive, the OPPO phones i was on about the 5G one is another £30 ish.

The modem chip developers mostly Qualcomm for OPPO/RealMe/OnePlus no longer make chips that don't do 5G, but it is upto the phone manufacturer if they design the right antennas and enable the feature.

I see, so all the stuff about 5G being in frequencies range that could cause more health problems is rubbish? If so then why have our council refused permission to a network to stick up a 5G mast?

In the UK we are not using mmWave (it could come eventually). The councils are very often misinformed. Very sad.

I am not saying that 5G cause health problems, but there is a fair bit about it and if the masts were too close to people I can not see then being healthy

this discussion has been ongoing since analogue (1G) mobile appeared. There have been lots of scientific studies all around the world, and the conclusion I read was that there is no impact from the mast. There MIGHT be impact from holding a transmitter against your head, so people concerned use hands free.

Oh yes, I know about the U.S system. My cousin is in a dispute with her provider and she says the system is stupid and we have it much better over here.

Yep!

I realise DSL technologies are not good for distance, ADSL for a start was pretty slow here, max I could get was 3Mb/s if i was lucky, but that is mainly due to the fact my line is longer than it should be as it goes to the old exchange and then doubles back to the newer exchange.

In the US their exchanges were built much later, and given how spread out most towns are they often had 256kbps, 512kbps, or 768kbps options, not even as fast as 1 meg.

FTTC/VDSL is better, but I am still a fair distance away from the cabinet. We will never have cable here, not sure if I would want it. There was a time when I wish we had Virgin, but looking at the prices they now charge and the complaints I am glad it never came here.

Its my only other option here, and I'm glad I had the option, but a real FTTP provider would be better in my opinion!

In reply to a post by jchamier:

this discussion has been ongoing since analogue (1G) mobile appeared. There have been lots of scientific studies all around the world, and the conclusion I read was that there is no impact from the mast. There MIGHT be impact from holding a transmitter against your head, so people concerned use hands free.

In the late 1990s there was intense debate in our village when it was proposed that a mast should be built to supply a mobile phone signal. The upshot was that it was far too much of a risk for the health of the children in the village and the resultant campaign dissuaded the mobile networks from supplying a signal. Because of the geographic constraints where we live we are still in a mobile not-spot even though extra masts have been built in the surrounding areas. The network providers have made no attempt to fill the gap since the local outcry citing "no demand" as the reason. No additional income more like as we are in a tourist area with about 250,000 people passing through each year but whether a resident or visitor makes a call makes no difference to the revenue stream when the great majority of mobile phone users are on contract rather than PAYG.

People should be careful what they wish for (including many of the vocal opponents 20-odd years ago - and their children - who now complain about the lack of a signal).

In reply to a post by jchamier:

I'm in a town of approx 45k, and yes 3G works, but it is being drawn down. I would advise anyone with a 3G only phone to look at an upgrade.

I think we are about 65,000 here and growing, but the city itself is not that large, I can walk from one side to the other in just over an hour and a half.
What about people with 2G phones? i think most basic phones are 2G only and I know some people who have them and have no interest in getting a smartphone.

2G and 3G were designed by the telecoms industry. 4G and later are designed by the IT industry working with the telecoms industry. 3G is circuit switched, in the same way 2G is, and your land line service. Think of it as a dial up modem (or ISDN which is faster) you have to make the connection, send the data, disconnect. Whilst you are connected, the modem at the internet provider is not usable by anybody else.

This means when WhatsApp or iMessage wants to send a notification to the handset it has to take up a full session to get the small amount of information across, and then destroy the session.

4G is known as Long Term Evolution for a reason. It is packet based, which is the same as internet traffic using TCP/IP, and this means your phone can be sent a notification at the same time as another thousand phones.



Now as more and more people have mobile phones (Ofcom estimate we have about 190% rate, where a lot of people have more than one) each phone is sitting "connected" to the mast, waiting for a call, or a notification to arrive. Even when it is just in standby on your table.

With 3G a cell site sector can only hold a certain number, around 400, of devices connected. With 4G the cell site sector can handle 4,000 (or more) devices connected at the same time. This dramatic leap forward is how the mobile networks have coped with the increasing use.

3G also has a crazy feature called Cell Breathing, when the mast is under load, it reduces its radio transmit power, so if you are on the edge of signal reception, you lose signal completely. 2G, 4G, and 5G do not do this.

That is something I did not know, I always thought 3G was packet based,
I understand now why you call 3G awful technology.

Very interesting, cheers for that info.

So what you are saying is you don't need speed, and a 2 to 5 Mbps connection is enough for you.

yes, that is what I am saying, for mobile use, home use no, that is why I went for a wireless network which was 10Mb/s before we had FTTC, mainly for netflix and now with 4k, we need more, but for me 38Mb/s on FTTc is fine.

3G vs 4G isn't about speed to the networks it is about capacity. Being able to give everyone a service good enough to meet their needs. This path continues with 5G.

Don't expect 3G to remain due to its other faults, but you should find all phones sold now have 4G LTE capability, and can easily give you "3G style speeds".

What about feature phones?
All smartphones now have 4G,

And that makes sense, 4G isn't going anywhere, by the time the networks want to get rid of 4G, you will have bought a phone with 5G support for a very low cost. This will be years away.

I think it may be awhile before 3G vanishes, but as you said it may be reduced. The phone I was looking at went down in price, and now It is not available where I was going to buy it from, that is if I did buy it.

My phone is getting worse, I have put it back on charge now I am home from work, but I have turned it off to see if that makes a difference, the thing is I don't really want to spend money on another phone, I can afford it, but just the thought of buying another phone erks me and certainly with the ones available at the moment and the style they are.


The smart meters are supposed to be moving away from mobile phone networks to the Digital Communications Company which is a) cheaper, and b) much lower frequency, for low data rate. That is part of the SMETS2 specification. Mobile networks was always an interim idea, but maybe for 10 to 15 years whilst DCC gets its part up and running.


They still have a sim, so they still go via a mobile network, I know that they can also use a Mesh system. DCC, run by Crapita. Strangely enough I was chatting to someone last night, and they were saying their smart meter have stopped sending data to their energy company, it was only installed last month.

It has happened, and people cry as their phones don't work! One of the reasons the UK has 4 independent networks. (and they are still independent despite sharing mast sites and metal towers).

They mucked up by where the mate of mine lived, they moved the mast as they wanted all the networks on one mast, but they moved it the other side of the hill, mobile signal for any network is now awful there.

Neither am I, but I can see the capacity on 3G is half from my diagnostic apps.

I have not really noticed, but then I only used 3G just to see if i could manage on it.

That wasn't a 4G thing, just a choice of frequency and the 800 band was planned for 4G across Europe a long time before. The problem was poorly designed older televisions did not expect frequencies designed for TV back in the 1920s would ever change.

Fair enough.

Think of it as the electronic equivalent of adding roads to the M25 or M6. It allows more lorries to travel along at the same time. It does not make the dinner, or fly people to the moon, it is just a radio network.

I understand what you are getting at, but I still doubt most people will notice the difference. People will want it because it is there, not because they need it, like fast computers, I must have the fastest machine I can get, and yet I am only using it for browsing or a bit of word processing. Same with broadband, not all but a lot don't need the speed they have got and could go cheaper.

I said that even if I could get a higher speed on F TTC, I would not bother as it would cost more for something that would make no difference to me whatsoever.

The modem chip developers mostly Qualcomm for OPPO/RealMe/OnePlus no longer make chips that don't do 5G, but it is upto the phone manufacturer if they design the right antennas and enable the feature.

But not all phones use Qualcomm and I expect budget phones will use older chips. The one I had a look at the Oppo A72 has a Qualcomm SM6125 Snapdragon 665, I will be surprised if that can do 5G.

n the UK we are not using mmWave (it could come eventually). The councils are very often misinformed. Very sad.

Fair enough,

this discussion has been ongoing since analogue (1G) mobile appeared. There have been lots of scientific studies all around the world, and the conclusion I read was that there is no impact from the mast. There MIGHT be impact from holding a transmitter against your head, so people concerned use hands free.

I think I will be happy to keep the mast where it is by the football ground, it is a fair distance from me

In the US their exchanges were built much later, and given how spread out most towns are they often had 256kbps, 512kbps, or 768kbps options, not even as fast as 1 meg.

Yeah, I realise that, I can not remember when our new exchange was built, but most of it is used by the traffic police now, the old one is part of a snob school or was not sure if it is now. I remember when I was a child going past and hearing the actuators when people dialled.
These days there is no need for such a large building.

Its my only other option here, and I'm glad I had the option, but a real FTTP provider would be better in my opinion!

No FTTC either?
The problem with Virgin is if all you want is broadband, they charge a sky-high price, hoping to get you to use their TV service, the same with Sky and I have no interest in using a TV service, I don't have a licence for a start.
This is the one good thing about Zzooomm I suppose, it is offers broadband and that is it.

Now I have got to look around for a new phone and I really don't want to do it

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

What about people with 2G phones? i think most basic phones are 2G only and I know some people who have them and have no interest in getting a smartphone.

It has been hard to buy a 2G feature phone for a while. My understanding is that 2G will remain a lot longer, but at the small level of capacity now available. All three networks with 2G have already shrunk to small amount, with EE the last to really shrink last summer. They will never tell us (internally confidential) but it gives the clue that very few people are using 2G or 3G only handsets. 5G is still in its early days of course. The people I know with 2G only handsets are in their mid to late 80s and on PAYG so will not be the focus of the network operators.

That is something I did not know, I always thought 3G was packet based, I understand now why you call 3G awful technology.

HSPA+ used packets but still needed the basic 3G (UMTS) connection, so the technology did not scale.

yes, that is what I am saying, for mobile use, home use no, that is why I went for a wireless network which was 10Mb/s before we had FTTC, mainly for netflix and now with 4k, we need more, but for me 38Mb/s on FTTc is fine.

Then a 4G phone will do you for a very long time. Networks such as EE have said they are aiming for approx 40 Mbps per person, which is an impressive goal.

What about feature phones? All smartphones now have 4G,

Feature phones as a concept are dead, I see LG are talking about withdrawing from the mobile market. Samsung and others probably still make feature phones using 2G and 3G technology, and I read somewhere that a 4G VoLTE capable feature phone does exist, so maybe the new Nokia (HMD global) will create something!

Its not impossible to create a 4G/VoLTE feature phone, its just demand is low.

I think it may be awhile before 3G vanishes, but as you said it may be reduced. The phone I was looking at went down in price, and now It is not available where I was going to buy it from, that is if I did buy it.

There are rumours via Twitter that the likes of EE and Vodafone will start turning off 3G in the UK from 2022. Nothing confirmed yet, but the US is talking about ending both 2G & 3G next year leaving only 4G & 5G !! They are pushing hard as they need the capacity.

I can afford it, but just the thought of buying another phone erks me and certainly with the ones available at the moment and the style they are.

Maybe you can get a battery for it?

I know that they can also use a Mesh system. DCC, run by Crapita. Strangely enough I was chatting to someone last night, and they were saying their smart meter have stopped sending data to their energy company, it was only installed last month.

I didn’t think DCC was mesh, but that would be a good idea. It was supposed to be really low freq so would get into the places where smart meters don’t work today (ie, under stairs cupboards in really old homes with solid walls). I haven’t looked into it.

They mucked up by where the mate of mine lived, they moved the mast as they wanted all the networks on one mast, but they moved it the other side of the hill, mobile signal for any network is now awful there.

This happens in cities too when buildings get demolished, or even when a building gets a new owner and they evict the mast from the roof. Complicated life a mobile network has!

I understand what you are getting at, but I still doubt most people will notice the difference. People will want it because it is there, not because they need it, like fast computers, I must have the fastest machine I can get, and yet I am only using it for browsing or a bit of word processing. Same with broadband, not all but a lot don't need the speed they have got and could go cheaper.

Whilst that is a case for some people, it isn’t everyone. Many people just want their social media, YouTube, and email to work, and so they can send a selfie when they want. With enough capacity this becomes transparent and no one has to think of it. That is the networks dream.

I said that even if I could get a higher speed on F TTC, I would not bother as it would cost more for something that would make no difference to me whatsoever.

Here I have Virgin Cable, so could buy 500 Mbps service, but I have no desire to spend that silly money. I have 200 which gives me 20 Mbps upload, but could probably cope on the 100/10 service.

But not all phones use Qualcomm and I expect budget phones will use older chips. The one I had a look at the Oppo A72 has a Qualcomm SM6125 Snapdragon 665, I will be surprised if that can do 5G.

That is a Cat 12 LTE modem, so can do 3 carrier aggregation, so should do you well for many years. The Snapdragon 765 however does have 5G, so maybe the phone after!

No FTTC either?

I had FTTC, started 60 down 8 up, but fell to 40 down 3 up due to cross talk from other customers. I’m at almost 600m from the cabinet, and that was the best I could get. The 3 Mbps upload wasn’t enough for home working I needed back in Sept 2019. I also don’t want TV or phone.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

It has been hard to buy a 2G feature phone for a while. My understanding is that 2G will remain a lot longer, but at the small level of capacity now available. All three networks with 2G have already shrunk to small amount, with EE the last to really shrink last summer. They will never tell us (internally confidential) but it gives the clue that very few people are using 2G or 3G only handsets. 5G is still in its early days of course. The people I know with 2G only handsets are in their mid to late 80s and on PAYG so will not be the focus of the network operators.

I was on about just normal bog-standard phones, not feature phones. People have been pushed to smartphones even those who have no real need for one and yes I know I use the word push a lot, but it is true. My mate, may he rest in peace had a normal Nokia phone and all Vodafone wanted to do was either sell him a smartphone or a service that had data, something which he had no use for. In the end i think he managed to get a deal that was cheapish, but it still had data .

HSPA+ used packets but still needed the basic 3G (UMTS) connection, so the technology did not scale.

Ah, I see.

Then a 4G phone will do you for a very long time. Networks such as EE have said they are aiming for approx 40 Mbps per person, which is an impressive goal.

Oh yeah 4g will do me fine, I have a 2GB deal with smarty and upped it to 6GB two years running, and yet I have never gone over the 2GB, in fact I keep getting money back, which shows how much data I use, I have 4.97GB left of 6GB and have 11 days remaining.

Feature phones as a concept are dead, I see LG are talking about withdrawing from the mobile market. Samsung and others probably still make feature phones using 2G and 3G technology, and I read somewhere that a 4G VoLTE capable feature phone does exist, so maybe the new Nokia (HMD global) will create something!


Its not impossible to create a 4G/VoLTE feature phone, its just demand is low.

But some people still have them, LG have not done so well in the smart phone market, I did have a nexus 4 which was made by LG and to be honest it was a good little phone.
i looked at nokia phones, but they are either very cheap and very expensive


There are rumours via Twitter that the likes of EE and Vodafone will start turning off 3G in the UK from 2022. Nothing confirmed yet, but the US is talking about ending both 2G & 3G next year leaving only 4G & 5G !! They are pushing hard as they need the capacity.



I will be surprised if it happens in 2022, surly they need to give people warning?

Maybe you can get a battery for it?

It is not the battery, when it is charged that lasts for ages, it is either the charging circuit or something to do with the usb connector.

I didn’t think DCC was mesh, but that would be a good idea. It was supposed to be really low freq so would get into the places where smart meters don’t work today (ie, under stairs cupboards in really old homes with solid walls). I haven’t looked into it.

I am, sure I read that they could operate as a mesh system, I could be wrong. Makes no odds to me, my meters are not smart, and I have only just had a new, well old gas meter installed last week.

Whilst that is a case for some people, it isn’t everyone. Many people just want their social media, YouTube, and email to work, and so they can send a selfie when they want. With enough capacity this becomes transparent and no one has to think of it. That is the networks dream.


I am not saying it is everyone, the networks dream is to get people hooked and then up the price.

Here I have Virgin Cable, so could buy 500 Mbps service, but I have no desire to spend that silly money. I have 200 which gives me 20 Mbps upload, but could probably cope on the 100/10 service.

i know what you mean, this is why I said I will see what plusnet can offer me at the end of my contract and if price they offer me is not much different to Zzoomm, then I will look at zzoomm, but it is the hassle, people digging the garden up and roaming around the house.

That is a Cat 12 LTE modem, so can do 3 carrier aggregation, so should do you well for many years. The Snapdragon 765 however does have 5G, so maybe the phone after!

Just gone down in price from £199 to £139, so a very good price now.
I did look in Argos, but they have sold out, shame as I would have got another 10% off.
i just need to make up my mind and fast because I doubt that price will last long.

I had FTTC, started 60 down 8 up, but fell to 40 down 3 up due to cross talk from other customers. I’m at almost 600m from the cabinet, and that was the best I could get. The 3 Mbps upload wasn’t enough for home working I needed back in Sept 2019. I also don’t want TV or phone.

I get around 38Mb/s and it more or less stay there, now and again it will drop a bit, but nothing too bad. i did have some problems around 3 years ago when the only device that would connect was a BT Huawei modem. The ECI one that BT gave me originally would not connect, the plusnet router would not connect and even the Zyxel plusnet sent me only connected for a few days and then lost sync. Even open reach test equipment would not sync, here or at the cabinet. It confused them, and they said just to keep the Huawei modem in line. It is fine now, and I have the Zyxel connected directly, so they must either have found the problem at some stage or done some work to the cabinet that sorted out the problem, it has been fine now for over a year.
it was just a strange fault.

Home working is a problem I suppose, i have mates that are home working and they have the same problem with lack of speed,

A non smart phone mobile is generally called a “feature” phone if the only feature it has is the old Snake game

As to notice for turning off, is suspect you are right but 6 months notice would be a lot. Given all 3G phones can use 2G it’s not a so called “breaking” change. Depends what ofcom tell them to do!

Home working generally need upload, if I had 15 or higher as my parents get on FTTC then I would have kept.

Given what I have found through a year or so with OnePlus, the only drawback for you with this one might be the size.

Almost straight Android, not forever pushing "must have" apps and films.

If you scroll down to "Life is too short" you might find a gif of possibly one of your critics on another forum on this site. Also, I think you've said you have a cat so the next one scrolling down suggests all you would need as well would be that keyboard.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

A non smart phone mobile is generally called a “feature” phone if the only feature it has is the old Snake game

As to notice for turning off, is suspect you are right but 6 months notice would be a lot. Given all 3G phones can use 2G it’s not a so called “breaking” change. Depends what ofcom tell them to do!

Home working generally need upload, if I had 15 or higher as my parents get on FTTC then I would have kept.

Snake, I used to love snake,
We will wait and see what happens as i said it makes little difference to me and to be honest most people if 3g was turned off,

I would like a higher upload sometimes, 9Mb/s if i am lucky, but it is not that important that I would pay extra for it, unless like you I was working from home.