Recovering the drop wire for Overhead when providing FTT is simple and the quantities bulk up when you will be doing the numbers OR will be. So storage is not an issue, Recycling is messy due to the insulation but already happens.

Exchange to Cab recovery is likely to cost in due at high points of the scrap cycle and has the advantage of freeing duct space. But only when whole cabs ( or large cables) are offloaded completely.

Next high point is likely to be as we exit the pandemic, Look at steel, cement and wood price rises going on now, copper will be about 6 months behind. However this will be too soon for most areas. So more likely 5-7 years time as the demand for Electric Cars peaks and boilers need changing out to heat pumps.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Fair enough. Only post there from time to time.

I avoid that place, and find it strange its impact spills out to the rest of the site.

+1

In reply to a post by kitcat:

boilers need changing out to heat pumps.

I keep hearing people talking about heat pumps (be it air or ground source) replacing boilers but the important thing people need to be aware of is they only really work well with underfloor heating (and a well insulated property) not radiators, the water that passes through a radiator is typically around 75C but a heat pump works best around 35C and the Coefficient of Performance (COP) reduces the higher over this temperature to the point where if it reduces to 1.0 it will means its no better than heating your property directly with regular electric heating.

Edited by deleted (Sun 30-May-21 16:56:47)

Heat pumps can work sucessfully via radiators too, they just need to be increased in size (at least double - but depends totally on what was there before) and being fed by 15mm pipe size to each radiator. I have just renovated my house and used 10mm microbore, so regretting that decision.

For heat pumps to work properly though you really need (in addtion to the above):

1) a relatively leak proof house and good insultaiton
2) Change of mindset that you cannot have heating coming on an hour before you need it, it needs to be on for much longer

The government / industry is moving away from heatpumps for older housing stock though as it's just going to be too costly (and messy) to retrofit. The view is now to move to hydrogen (the latest Worcester Bosch boilers for example can be switched to hydrogen once available for less than £100) or move to communcal heating in more populated areas.

In reply to a post by gary333:

Heat pumps can work sucessfully via radiators too, they just need to be increased in size (at least double - but depends totally on what was there before) and being fed by 15mm pipe size to each radiator. I have just renovated my house and used 10mm microbore, so regretting that decision.

For heat pumps to work properly though you really need (in addition to the above):

1) a relatively leak proof house and good insulation
2) Change of mindset that you cannot have heating coming on an hour before you need it, it needs to be on for much longer

The government / industry is moving away from heat pumps for older housing stock though as it's just going to be too costly (and messy) to retrofit. The view is now to move to hydrogen (the latest Worcester Bosch boilers for example can be switched to hydrogen once available for less than £100) or move to communal heating in more populated areas.

OK thats interesting, so they double the size of the radiators (which in turn doubles its surface area) to compensate for the lower temperature output of the heat pump.


Edit: Had 10mm microbore in a previous house, made a promise to myself never again

Edited by deleted (Tue 01-Jun-21 16:50:31)

Yeah, thats correct they increase the surface area of the radiators. Some houses may need triple the size which could be impossible due to size of room, or visually ugly if they need to use K3 (triple panel rads). Underfloor heating is a better solution but even then it’s expensive and not suitable for some houses or floor finishes.

I used 10mm to drop all radiators from above and hide pipes in wall. I didn’t use manifolds so hopefully won’t be as bad as most houses due to the manifold normally being the weak point with microbore causing blockages. I’ll likely convert to air to air heat pump when it conks so can have aircon and use a solar fed unvented tank next time around.

I'd rather switch to mini splits if using heat pumps, rather than trying to adapt existing radiators.

In reply to a post by jpm:

I'd rather switch to mini splits if using heat pumps, rather than trying to adapt existing radiators.

Mini splits, do you mean multi split or just split system in general? Yeah, they are air to air and is what I’d go for as it gives aircon. However, from a comfort point of view for those who want just heating then convection in the form of radiators or underfloor gives a better level of comfort plus the ability to link in with solar in future so it’s swings and roundabouts.

Edited by gary333 (Tue 01-Jun-21 20:20:34)

Radiant floor is the gold standard but I think you need to be willing to take a compromise if you're retro-fitting. For new build where you can take into account the amount of insulation required then knock yourself out.

Combined with some sort of heat recovery ventilation system to stop everything getting stale.

if openreach were to retire the copper network in my city they wouldnt be selling any services given they not planning any FTTP here.