In reply to a post by j0hn83:

Zero credentials. By far the easiest OpenReach ISP to authenticate with.

Automatic IP/IPoE/DHCP.

Bit of a shame there's no static IP options or IPV6 mind you.

Thanks.

The lack of static IP doesn't worry me to be honest (same for IPv6). There's always dynamic DNS for getting over the lack of static IP (for my use case anyway).

Lets be honest your average internet user doesn't need more than 25Mbps which would allow Ultra HD on Netflix for those that must have 100Mbps plus speeds then i guess you're quote above will be the case and its holding them back (if they cannot get it) for the rest of us 80/20 will do nicely, i assume the need for speed will continue and i imagine i will be jumping on that bandwagon some time in the not too distant future but i am in no rush like the majority of the country.

I agree on the speed front.
I'm on a 40/10 FTTC package...and for 95% of the time this is more than enough for what we use.
I suspect the same is true for most users.

However, there's a few times where I've wanted to download sizeable files (PC / PS4 games etc.) and the download speeds are just frustrating. The 500/75 FTTP package I'm getting is only £8 more per month than I'm paying, so feels 'worth it' to me at this point.

I used to be on VirginMedia's 200/20 package, but it was just terrible (latency was horrific at times and speeds would drop to as low as 0.5Mbps in peak times). They eventually let me out of the contract because of a repeated failure to resolve the problems.

In reply to a post by zzing123:

Both ADSL2 and VDSL rollouts were stopgap technologies to bridge the transition of copper to fibre rather than any kind of solution for more than the short term. G.Fast thankfully was stopped in its tracks but even the fact they rolled some of it out shredded even the last bit of competence credibility OR and BT had. The fact BT and OR used it for so long was an error of Ofcom and the government not pressurising them and consumers not speaking up. OR still needs to die a horrible and painful death.

So yes, I agree with the OP that UK broadband has lagged severely behind as a result of egregious profiteering and downright inertia in OR, because we're only now in the transition where OR needed to be 10 years ago. But the physical network isn't the only issue, but also service standards have fallen tremendously over the last 10 years as well. The fact most ISPs, particularly alt nets, don't offer even basic things like static IPs or the use of PPPoE on an ethernet link is preposterous.

So there's an issue service side as well, as MTU, latency, contention and tunnelling rather than adopting more modern techniques such as EVPN per customer is drastically falling short of acceptable service levels too.

Summarising your opinions there:

1) You want Openreach, which has the biggest network in the UK, to cease to exist.

What organisation do you suggest should replace it?
What should happen to its rollout of GEA FTTP? Should it be stopped?

2) Most ISPs don't offer static IP addresses and you think that wrong.

Are you talking about IPv4, IPv6, or both?
You may not be aware of the impossibility of everyone having a static IPv4 address.

3) The alt nets are particularly bad in that respect.

The same questions arise for each one as in (1) and (2). How should all they all integrate to provide a national network given that under your plan Openreach will not exist.

4) EVPN is the answer.

I have to admit I'd never heard of it, but from this article which I have only skimmed, it looks to me that you are requesting a total revision of the whole of the World-Wide-Web. It doesn't seem to be something a single country could implement.

zzing123

It was not BT/OR that stopped the early rollout of FTTP, it was OFTEL/OFCOM under pressure from LLU operators ( Mainly Sky/TalkTalk and others). In 2004 there was an ITT run by BT on FTTP that had two successful suppliers. However BT were prevented by the regulator from rolling out FTTP except in a trial new town ( Ebbsfleet) which had no infrastructure at all. BT was VERY disappointed and this pushed the Implementation of FTTP in the UK back nearly 10 years.

Basically BT was told that if they provided FTTP they would also have to provide copper. it took another 4 years before Industry agreed that BT could provide FTTC ( along with SLU for LLU operators) and FTTP on new build sites other than Ebbsfleet without the provision of copper.

It was only around 2016-18 the the regulator agreed that OR could remove copper from some sites completely making the economics much better than having to run two networks, this was agreed in the USA in 2004 and was the driver for Baby bells to start their Fibre rollouts. BT wanted to do this in 2004 too which was the driver for the ITT!.

The regulator protecting the Sky and Talktalk busniss model of maximising LLU revenue rather than enabling FTTP has the real blame (Look at when Sky actually started selling FTTP 02/11/2020 )
.

Exactly why BT shouldn't own OR.

In reply to a post by pluralist:

1) You want Openreach, which has the biggest network in the UK, to cease to exist.

What organisation do you suggest should replace it?
What should happen to its rollout of GEA FTTP? Should it be stopped?

Yup. I've summarised this before, but each line should be assigned to a premises, and the ownership of the line changes dynamically based on the ISP providing the service. There would still be an Openreach of sorts, just that it's shareholding is defined by whoever is providing a service on the line at that given time, not by BT. Think of OR being run as a nationwide LINX, whereby each ISP rents some space in exchanges and has a load of peering agreements.

The 'GEA' bit of FTTP (and FTTC) should be ceased. FTTP is the physical layer and whether you use PON or point-to-point connectivity is neither here nor there. It's how OR handoff to ISPs that's the cruft that needs to reconfigured as OR should have no visibility into the L3 layer.

In reply to a post by pluralist:

2) Most ISPs don't offer static IP addresses and you think that wrong.

Are you talking about IPv4, IPv6, or both?
You may not be aware of the impossibility of everyone having a static IPv4 address.

And that's a key decision factor for me personally not to choose them or give them wayleave.

4) EVPN is the answer.

EVPN is one method, MPLS is another. Effectively provisioning an L2 VPLS to every subscriber, without having the 4096 VLAN limitation. What happens on the L2 network is between the ISP and you as the customer. It is managed by iBGP and/or OSPF and whatever routing protocol you want to use, so you can dynamically route between routers and have multipathing and resilience built in. You can also choose to provide a basic service, like PPPoE or DHCP on the L2, or you can then give the customer an overlay network to do what they want. Have a look at 'Dynamic routing using iBGP/OSPFv2 & v3/MPLS' towards the end of this page: https://stubarea51.net/2020/03/03/starting-a-wisp-gu... except replace 'tower' with an exchange. In essence you're talking about an underlay network (OR's bit) and an overlay network (the ISP). You can then add yet another overlay (customer private WAN). Everything gets routed accordingly to each CPE and ISP as needed without any interference: you just get the service you agree with the ISP, be it a full leased line, a multisite WAN or a bog standard broadband service, all over the same infrastructure.

Right now, yes. Although Netflix is not the biggest consumer and certainly not the target you should set speeds against.

But in 40-50 years time? Because that's how old the copper is, when only half the households had colour TV's, let alone 4K, so it's probably best to think ahead a bit...

In reply to a post by zzing123:

Exactly why BT shouldn't own OR.

^^ This - I hate BT! But well done on Openreach speedy up FTTP rolling out in UK but BT still disappoointed because BT want to keep the copper line!

In reply to a post by adslmax:

... but BT still disappoointed because BT want to keep the copper line!

Enforced by Ofcom so that LLU ADSL2+ and FTTC can continue. Both of those need the copper.