In reply to a post by tommy45:

Forgive me here but as a domestic user even SME, why are you so reliant on the internet? Same goes for the black mirror devices that rely on 5 soon to be 6g ? My generation relied on neither and we thrived

These days lots of everyday functions expect internet - recently my neighbour's burglar alarm went off due to a power cut (it assumes some external interference). The only way to silence the alarm is using a WiFi connection, which of course wasn't working due to the power cut.
I also know someone with an electrically operated garage door - with no way to operate it in a power cut (he can still get his bicycle out through the side door though even if he can't use his car).
Electricity and the internet are now so ubiquitous that when designing things no thought is given to the possibility of not having them.

Those are poorly designed products then - in the case of the garage door opener it would be simple to have buttons for local control and a mechanical override to enable it to be released from the inside if power were to fail to the motor.

Same with the alarm - there's all these startup companies selling DIY alarm systems that insurers barely classify as alarms, but an LTE backup is the minimum that should be expected from new systems, as well as full functionality locally for arming and disarming the system that doesn't require any communication with a server.

Although I've never been forced to use it, there is a long handle next to my garage door control box. It can be connected to the drive motor at the end of the door 'roller blind' and allows manual opening and closing.

Apart from anything else compliant home security system external alarms will switch themselves off 20 minutes after activation.

In reply to a post by ajseeds:

I appreciate that this thread is focused on domestic uses, but the same infrastructure supports business users, who have alarms and telemetry which currently are carried on internet, backed-up by GSM and special protocols over copper. The withdrawal of copper is a major concern in areas where Openreach FTTP is not available.

At this stage - is it really? Like anyone that is THIS reliant on telecoms in a professional capacity or even passing sense, will have known that PSTN will be switched off at the end of 2025.

Don't conflate PSTN removal with copper removal/retirement - the latter could be decades away. They are not the same and are not really inextricably linked. Openreach are not taking out copper universally in under 2 years time.

Anyhow I'm curious what are these "special protocols" that you speak of?

Lots of people out there do wrongly entwine the PSTN switch off and copper retirement.

Same with the alarm - there's all these startup companies selling DIY alarm systems that insurers barely classify as alarms, but an LTE backup is the minimum that should be expected from new systems, as well as full functionality locally for arming and disarming the system that doesn't require any communication with a server.

Actually the alarm is an industrial alarm (it isn't a residential building) from a major supplier. I'm not sure it needs communication with a server, but it does expect to be managed from am App on a smartphone/tablet.
I agree it is bad design - but unfortunately it is now common to assume electricity and broadband/WiFi are always available.

If it is industrial then it should have a back-up battery capable of fully powering the system for 12 or 24 hours depending on grade. And which manufacturer provides alarms with NO keypad?

Despite being rather reliant on broadband for work in our distributed tech. company I agree nothing very bad would happen if I was disconnected for a day or two and the book/walk/see some friends options would keep me happy. I am more concerned by the combined possibility of a power cut and loss of 'life-line' telephony, either in an emergency or for those who will increasingly become dependent on telecommunications for care of one sort or another. If there was evidence that operators really took their responsibilities seriously and addressed maintenance problems with batteries or offered services that pro-actively alerted care-providers then maybe we'd just be left with the residual risk of two bad things happening at once which is maybe acceptable. As it is there seems to be a more significant gap.
There's no mobile service here, incidentally, (and we're not alone) or at least not without a brisk walk up the road (with a broken leg/concussion/ailment of your choice...).

"Don't conflate PSTN removal with copper removal/retirement - the latter could be decades away. They are not the same and are not really inextricably linked. Openreach are not taking out copper universally in under 2 years time.

Anyhow I'm curious what are these "special protocols" that you speak of?"

I was referring to dial-up based telemetry, used as second back-up, when internet and GSM fail. The comms. protocols are proprietary multi-tone coding. To function they need a dial-up voice line connection and that is not available during an area power cut, once mobile has dropped out, if there is no PSTN.

When the copper is removed is not relavant to this problem. The issue is when maintained comms. service ceases to be available and that looks like 2025, unless Openreach FTTP is available.

In reply to a post by ajseeds:

I was referring to dial-up based telemetry, used as second back-up, when internet and GSM fail. The comms. protocols are proprietary multi-tone coding. To function they need a dial-up voice line connection and that is not available during an area power cut, once mobile has dropped out, if there is no PSTN.

When the copper is removed is not relavant to this problem. The issue is when maintained comms. service ceases to be available and that looks like 2025, unless Openreach FTTP is available.

I find your posts incredibly hard to understand although what you're actually trying to say is very simple.

Edit: having just done a little research I see your a Professor of Opto-electronics which accounts for the wordiness of your posts.

Edited by deleted (Tue 31-Jan-23 10:58:51)