In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

If that is the case, then why the hell is Openreach going to restrict people's broadband in Salisbury & Mildenhall if they don't change over? They say it is to do with PSTN, but it doesn't sound like it.

Those towns are the full fibre (FTTP) test areas, where copper is being fully switched off, as Openreach have agreed years ago with Ofcom. Completely separate to PSTN which is voice calls.

It will certainly not be happening here for a while, I did get a bit worried that it would happen once openreach got to 75% coverage, but not so worried now

I think they’d have to get 100% coverage to do that.

From my count there are 368 FTTP Priority Exchanges.
There are a further 280 exchanges being added to that by Feb 2023.

Once Ultrafast* coverage on these exchanges hits 75% then anyone with FTTP available can only order FTTP (the 40/10 FTTC package is excluded).
Ultrafast coverage includes G.Fast above 300Mb/s.

The salisbury trial is basically the same. It only impacts properties with FTTP available (even Salisbury won't reach 100%).

In reply to a post by ajseeds:

"Don't conflate PSTN removal with copper removal/retirement - the latter could be decades away. They are not the same and are not really inextricably linked. Openreach are not taking out copper universally in under 2 years time.

Anyhow I'm curious what are these "special protocols" that you speak of?"

I was referring to dial-up based telemetry, used as second back-up, when internet and GSM fail. The comms. protocols are proprietary multi-tone coding. To function they need a dial-up voice line connection and that is not available during an area power cut, once mobile has dropped out, if there is no PSTN.

When the copper is removed is not relavant to this problem. The issue is when maintained comms. service ceases to be available and that looks like 2025, unless Openreach FTTP is available.

Yet you previously wrote:

The withdrawal of copper is a major concern in areas where Openreach FTTP is not available.

So is or isn’t copper retirement a major concern?

Then you changed it to “maintained comms” - whatever that means as it’s not defined anywhere.

In reply to a post by jpm:

The speed restriction (being trialled) is a warning shot before the service disappears completely. PSTN withdrawal affects any product built on top of it, WLR3+FTTC needs to change to SOGEA, only the ISP can do that. The aim of the trial is to trigger a process where the end user contacts their ISP, assuming that the ISP has already tried writing letters, sending emails and making phone calls and not had any success engaging the customer.

Just openreach acting like a monopoly, and proving that my opinions are spot on about the company.

We were told that PSTN withdrawal had nothing to do with broadband, and yet it seems Openreach are acting like a child that can't have its way and throwing their toys out of the pram.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Those towns are the full fibre (FTTP) test areas, where copper is being fully switched off, as Openreach have agreed years ago with Ofcom. Completely separate to PSTN which is voice calls.

If you read the articles, you will see that this is to do with PSTN, Openreach are slowing people's broadband down because they have not changed to digital voice or an alternative, not because they have not gone to Fibre.

I think they’d have to get 100% coverage to do that.

75%, not 100%,

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

From my count there are 368 FTTP Priority Exchanges.
There are a further 280 exchanges being added to that by Feb 2023.

Once Ultrafast* coverage on these exchanges hits 75% then anyone with FTTP available can only order FTTP (the 40/10 FTTC package is excluded).
Ultrafast coverage includes G.Fast above 300Mb/s.

The salisbury trial is basically the same. It only impacts properties with FTTP available (even Salisbury won't reach 100%).

Our exchange covers the whole city, where in larger cities they may have 2 or more exchanges, I think it will take a while to get to 75%.

I found out, or I think I have found out why Openreach is excluding 40/10 and that is to give people the chance who wants the faster speed to get it, I suppose if a load of people decided they wanted FTTP at the same time, openreach would not be able to cope with the installations.


i am still surprised that a neighbour have not changed to FTTP, since they were complaining like hell about the speed of their broadband, and they said they would change as soon as FTTP came. They could be still in contract and are going with Zzoomm I suppose. They are also business people, so they may know about the price increases in March and waiting for that to happen.

I have to sort out a UPS for someone one next week to run their home phone and router, they are on FTTC, but changed providers a couple of weeks ago and now on digital voice. They said they would go up to £100, so I was thinking of this Eaton That should keep the phone and router going for a bit and also when they go for fibre; the ONT. Not that we get many power cuts here, and they are normally short-lived. Never really had much to do with UPS, I had one given me years ago, which I used for a couple of years until it went belly up.
More to do with keeping the router alive when we have flickers and where they live they seem to have a lot of flickers

I'm sure they'd be open to hearing your suggestions for how better to manage the migration.

The problem is that VOIP requires a broadband connection that works. FTTC, mobile and most Altnet FTTPs fail as soon as the cabinet/cell-site batteries are exhausted- anything from a few minutes to a couple of hours.

You say that I have not defined "maintained comms.". On 31 January I wrote ""maintained communications" means that the circuit will continue to operate if there is a wide area power cut.""

My concern is with the lack of maintained coommunications, when both ADSL to exchanges with maintained power- I'll define that, if you need it defined- and PSTN is withdrawn. When neither those, nor Openreach FTTP are available, anything that needs maintained communications will need an alternative solution. The alternative solutions that I am aware of are neither convenient nor cheap.

Has there ever been a commitment to a PSTN line remaining powered indefinitely during power outages or to the availability of the line? As far as I know there's always been a MBORC clause which is going to be the likely cause of a prolonged loss of exchange power.

What are the anticipated applications where a site must stay connected in the event of local power outage and mobile network failure for all carriers but diverse fibre such as RO2 is cost prohibitive?

In reply to a post by ajseeds:

You say that I have not defined "maintained comms.". On 31 January I wrote ""maintained communications" means that the circuit will continue to operate if there is a wide area power cut.""

My concern is with the lack of maintained coommunications, when both ADSL to exchanges with maintained power- I'll define that, if you need it defined- and PSTN is withdrawn. When neither those, nor Openreach FTTP are available, anything that needs maintained communications will need an alternative solution. The alternative solutions that I am aware of are neither convenient nor cheap.

Ah OK. It’s a definition you made up!

If the site (you noted business) needs continuous comms whilst it’s lost all power - what is this for - if it’s such a showstopper.

Have they got replicated diesel sets too? Genuine question.