I should have been more clear that I was referring to providers supplying broadband and VOIP together.

My friend is currently with TalkTalk FTTC 80/20 and has decided to run with another provider although has never had any interest or use for the PSTN service provided. So naturally opted for a SoGEA service. I was very surprised to learn that this switch to SoGEA requires an engineer visit and that a new socket will be installed on the end of the copper line. That 'service call' comes at a cost of £12 + VAT. Why is such engineering work necessary?

Possibly they'll get a voice reinjection plate, which would isolate their phone extensions (if any) from the incoming line, and allow them to be driven from the router.

But I haven't heard of this happening before, so do let us know if that's the outcome - even if, as you say, the voice part is of no interest.

Who's the gaining provider?

SOGEA conversions will be an expensive business if 30 million engineer visits are required, so I wonder if the gaining ISP is being over-cautious in this case. Also I expect they'll be paying Openreach much more than £12+VAT for the visit, unless OR have some very special deal for PSTN switch-off.

Possibly they'll get a voice reinjection plate, which would isolate their phone extensions (if any) from the incoming line, and allow them to be driven from the router.

I seriously doubt that .. by the OP’s own admission , their friends don’t use or need a VOIP service.
If they have a current FTTC connection, then it ought to be a simple remote migration to the new provider, the dial tone will go ‘soft’ and then be switched off altogether at some later date.

Sounds more like the new provider ordering and and charging them for something they don’t need . {other opinions are available}

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Possibly they'll get a voice reinjection plate, which would isolate their phone extensions (if any) from the incoming line, and allow them to be driven from the router.

I seriously doubt that .. by the OP’s own admission , their friends don’t use or need a VOIP service.
If they have a current FTTC connection, then it ought to be a simple remote migration to the new provider, the dial tone will go ‘soft’ and then be switched off altogether at some later date.

Sounds more like the new provider ordering and and charging them for something they don’t need . {other opinions are available}

Slight misunderstanding here as I am not the OP but have hi-jacked this thread. My friend has a FTTC service from TalkTalk which automatically comes with a phone line. This has never been used and there is no physical phone plugged into the master socket. An ancient ATA is used for a VoIP service from Voipfone. The gaining provider will be Cloudscape with the existing router and ATA replaced with a new router with an inbuilt ATA and is future proofed by being FTTP ready. This duo package couple with the low usage of phone calls actually made will be a lot cheaper than running with TalkTalk's offering. A further bonus being better help line support from both companies.

There is a patchy mobile signal in the area so WiFi calling is very necessary mixed in with a bit of messaging.

The written confirmation of pricing from Cloudscape makes the statement that SoGea is available at the postcode of the installation. By implication this means that SoGea is not available everywhere.

I assumed that there would be no engineer attendance but it is no big deal if that happens as help will be needed to get mobile devices connected to the replacement router and to ensure the physical wireless phone is plugged into the right socket on the router.

TalkTalk wanted a 24 month contract which would have included two price rises against a formula that will probably see a price rise of 13% each time. Cloudscape's requirement was for a 12 month contract with price increases simply passing on suppliers increases to Cloudscape as and when they happen.

My broken crystal ball suggests FTTP will be in the area in about 18 months time from an alt-net. Can't see native Openreach FTTP arriving any time soon. Unlikely to take-up FTTP as 55/19 with FTTC is currently quite adequate for his needs. Mind you, silly FTTP pricing might be tempting.

Well documented is the fact that a power failure knocks out everything and you sort of think about installing a UPS unit as insurance against that, but I reckon a simple solar panel installation might be a better way forward. Thoughts on this anyone?

Apologies for the misunderstanding.

The written confirmation of pricing from Cloudscape makes the statement that SoGea is available at the postcode of the installation. By implication this means that SoGea is not available everywhere.

SOGEA is available from any FTTC enabled cab (if there’s capacity as per usual)

I assumed that there would be no engineer attendance but it is no big deal if that happens as help will be needed to get mobile devices connected to the replacement router and to ensure the physical wireless phone is plugged into the right socket on the router.

Ah, so sounds like a managed install is what may have been sold.

The path of least resistance would be to migrate the broadband to a new provider on a SoGEA-based service that also offer their own in-house VoIP based service. The advantage here is that it’s a “one stop shop “. The disadvantage is that it’s less flexible, there’s more tie in to stay with that supplier as the voice + broadband are contractually bundled and it’s thus less flexible going forward and you may be limited to only using it on their own kit and only from within the premises. Also possibly not as cheap for calls and/or ‘line rental’ (ongoing voice service monthly charge) than with a dedicated, independent VoIP provider.

The other option is to split it / have just the broadband provision with new provider and go out to market with the voice/VoIP provision. So you’d need to sign up with a new VoIP provider first, check it all works, then port your existing number to them. However this would also initiate the cease of your existing broadband+phone service - so a better way of going about it is to:

1. Setup the new VoIP provider account and fully test / get whatever kit you may want (VoIP DECT base, ATA, etc etc)

2. Initiate the order to migrate the broadband to a new SoGEA-only service provider. No other voice add-on needed from new broadband provider. The broadband will switch seamlessly on the nominated day that the new provider will confirm.

3. Initiate a porting request with your new VoIP provider to move your existing landline number to them. This typically takes around 7 to 10 days.

Timing wise initiate steps 2 and 3 more or less in parallel to optimise timing and minimise in gap in service gap when getting the number to the new VoIP provider (though you will still have a voice service available by dint of 1 above), but with the new 31-day “right-to-port” safety net the number shouldn’t slip away even if the underlying service has been ceased by the broadband migration.

Edited by Pheasant (Sun 09-Jul-23 09:17:07)

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

Well documented is the fact that a power failure knocks out everything and you sort of think about installing a UPS unit as insurance against that, but I reckon a simple solar panel installation might be a better way forward. Thoughts on this anyone?

. . .and a storage battery for when it is dark!

As a further cautionary tale about power cuts, the current overhead feed from the national power network to our village is undergoing maintenance so the power is currently being supplied by a network of hired-in generators. The generator supplying our house is hooked in to the step-down transformer that supplies our part of the village. This generator went down on Friday at 06:10; due to the complications brought about by the use of hired-in equipment and the power grid bureaucracy the generator was back and running by 14:30 but not re-connected to the supply network until 18:10, so a 12-hour outage. The remaining three-quarters of the village did not suffer any power outage. However, the generator that went down also supplies the AIO cabinet that brings FTTC to the whole village. There is no FTTP. The AIO cabinet went down at about 14:00 cutting off the internet to the whole village (although the PSTN service continued to work). The next village a mile up the road is currently on a different generator with a different OR cabinet and did not lose internet connection. The presumption is that the battery in the AIO cabinet serving our village only had a life of about 6 hours before giving up the ghost, although I haven't been able to get chapter and verse for that one. We are in a mobile free zone but as the PSTN service continued to work throughout the event there was always communication. Once PSTN is turned off the whole village will be without any means of communication if the step-down transformer to which the generator is currently attached goes down for maybe 6 hours or longer. There are plans to install a mobile phone mast in a location served by the same transformer; This will not supply any extra resilience unless the mast is provisioned with a larger battery than the norm or some sort of generating equipment.

I wonder how many more places are unaware that they suffer the same lack of resilience and possibility of total loss of communication.

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

I wonder how many more places are unaware that they suffer the same lack of resilience and possibility of total loss of communication.

Yes Ofcom and the Govt should be doing more to make it clear. Maybe they will in 2025 before the PSTN is switched off.

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

Well documented is the fact that a power failure knocks out everything and you sort of think about installing a UPS unit as insurance against that, but I reckon a simple solar panel installation might be a better way forward. Thoughts on this anyone?

Possibly best explored in another thread, rather than as you say hijacking the OPs thread, but almost anything is possible at any price point / budget....

If you're hoping to stand this up for ages (like many hours or longer) the local cabinet if on FTTC/SoGEA probably doest have much more than 4 or 5 hours autonomy (at best if the batteries are fresh), ditto the local mast if going to mobile, so worth bearing in mind. There cheap solutions that will stand up an ONT and basic router for a few hours that wont cost more than £100