In reply to a post by hk11:

All quite irrelevant to areas such as mine that no longer offer copper anyway.

I know it's advancement but there must be a lot of folk, like me, that were happy with what ADSL offered?

It just seems like a way of doubling the cost for half the service.

I agree, while ADSL here would be useless for what I want, as I can only get 3Mb/s I expect there are some people who are happy with that, and some that are closer to the exchange will get better speed. I know someone who still use dial up, but I think I have persuaded them to use a mobile network, they use something called Nippy or something like that.
I had to find one of my old modems a few weeks ago as the one they had decided to give up.

I realise we have to advance and I realise that technology changes, and old technology is not produced and it costs more to keep things going, but when things are done , certainly in this country it is not done correctly, you only have to look at our digital TV change over to see what a mess was made of that. Likewise, I know this change over have been on the cards for a long time, but I bet if you ask a thousand people on the street, you may get one or two that have heard about this.
I don't mean in places like yours, I mean like where I live, where copper is still available and used.

I have a few niggles about this pushing people onto fibre thing and yes I know this thread is mainly about the phone change not broadband as such, but it is all linked.,

Anyway, the niggles,
No battery back up for phone, for those that reply on it. I know a lot of people use mobiles, but some don't
Another device in the house that some people may get confused about and turn off.
Incompatible equipment, while we are told that vulnerable people will be helped. Yeah, ok pigs will fly.

Upselling will be a problem, I never had it really with FTTC as I could only get the lower speed, Plusnet did offer their TV package, and their phone service which is a sort of upselling. I did go with their mobile phone service, I went with that before they sent me the first info about it. Anyway, we get upselling with mobile phones, well some do, I do get the odd email from smarty trying to get me to change to a higher package, the last time I change it was for my benefit, cheaper and with more data and i can tell them not to contact me.
With Fibre this upselling can be huge with people getting bombed with emails and text and other ways to get people to go from a slower speed to a faster one, certainly ones that choose speeds blow 100Mb/s. It is happening already, I know of someone who is with Vodafone fibre, at their lowest speed of 75Mb/s, but they keep getting emails and even a phone call once about going to 100Mb/s for a quid extra per month and then once that is done they will nagg them to go higher. They change the contract preferences, but still get the emails.

A lot of people just have the internet because in this day and age it is required for life, but they don't require super-duper speeds and yet are going to be pushed into packages that cost more than what they are paying now, but saying that a lot of providers are now increasing the prices of ADSL and FTTC to match FTTP.
Like certain shops who have a brand name on offer or with their loyalty prices and take their own product off sale for a while to get people to buy the still more expensive branded product.

Now broadband ADSL is £20, their FTTC package is a pound more and I have seen providers doing that with FTTP. Plusnet tried it with me, offer me FTTP for less than what they offered FTTC. My other problem with all of this is the way we are now going back to 24 month contracts, I hate long contracts, certainly when prices increase part way though and with 24 months, twice and nothing can be done about it.

i am lucky that Zzoomm is here and they offerer a 12 month contract at a decent price, not that I was interested in going to FTTP and still not bothered about the extra speed, most of the time I don't even notice the difference, but the price is good.

Sorry for long post,

I get the argument about power outages, but its rare for them to last any length of time. Maybe where i live im lucky, but not had one for years that lasted more than a few mins.

You can also get a cheap PAYG phone for like a tenner these days, in the event you need a back up. Again not ideal but its a perfectly workable solution

But yes i agree more information needs to be out there about the switch. Im tech savvy, check news articles etc and i only recently found out about the 5th September stop sell on new phone lines

Edit: Most people have DECT phones these days too that rely on a power supply so its not a new issue

Edited by bobble_bob (Thu 10-Aug-23 11:12:33)

In reply to a post by danielhyde:

Can SoTAP and SoGFast be ordered yet?
Wherever I look I keep being told it is not available.

Thanks
Dan

Openreach selling it but sadly many ISPs not bothered to use it. Lazy sod

Openreach have never sold ADSL. They merely provide copper circuits between customer premises and frames in the exchange with their SMPF or MPF products. The broadband equipment and service is supplied by BT Wholesale or LLU providers such as Sky and Talk Talk.

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

I get the argument about power outages, but its rare for them to last any length of time. Maybe where i live im lucky, but not had one for years that lasted more than a few mins.

You can also get a cheap PAYG phone for like a tenner these days, in the event you need a back up. Again not ideal but its a perfectly workable solution

But yes i agree more information needs to be out there about the switch. Im tech savvy, check news articles etc and i only recently found out about the 5th September stop sell on new phone lines

Edit: Most people have DECT phones these days too that rely on a power supply so its not a new issue

I have not had a power outage for a long time, I think there have been a few flickers over the last few months, but that is about it.

PAYG phones are not really cheap, the phone may be but normally if you don't use it then you lose the money on it, it used to be you need to use it once in 30 days, i presume that have not changed., also what about if you have naff mobile signal? Even in this city there are places where mobile phone use is almost impossible.

i knew about the stop sell a while ago, not a problem for me as i already have VoIP, but some people are getting confused about it. As i said it has not been communicated correctly and is confusing people, even some younger ones.

i know what you are saying about Dect phones, but some people also have a normal phone for emergencies

In reply to a post by adslmax:

In reply to a post by danielhyde:

Can SoTAP and SoGFast be ordered yet?
Wherever I look I keep being told it is not available.

Thanks
Dan

Openreach selling it but sadly many ISPs not bothered to use it. Lazy sod

As tdw42 posted, out of reach is only the network and infrastructure provider, and we are supposed to believe that they are separate from BT. Yeah, sure they are.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

As tdw42 posted, out of reach is only the network and infrastructure provider, and we are supposed to believe that they are separate from BT. Yeah, sure they are.

The point here is the ADSL was never supplied by Openreach as the wires went from your home to the exchange and at the exchange you had a choice of providers. Sky, TalkTalk and BTwholesale ran ADSL hardware and your ISP could choose.

With VDSL/FTTC the equipment moved to the street, so there was no way an operator like Sky or TalkTalk could compete, so the regulated Openreach provided wholesale services to all the providers at the exchange, again TalkTalk, Sky, and BTwholesale.

So they have a legal separate operation agreement, and Ofcom would like to know if you have any evidence. In the long run (25/30 years time) we may no longer care when the likes of CityFibre of nexFibre have created alternative networks.

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

I get the argument about power outages, but its rare for them to last any length of time.

Depends where you live. In a metropolitan environment there is usually some sort of redundancy in the network so the grid operator can work round the problem in a comparatively short space of time. That covers the majority of the population. However, in the rural parts of the community most outages are caused by something breaking in the single link from the grid to the community. There is no redundancy and a single mission-critical link. When this link breaks (typically something like a tree falling and bringing down the line or a pole falling over) the experience from our connection is that the outage will last 12 hours give or take. That is 40 miles from a major urban community so not way out in the wilds. People in more rural areas will quite possibly see longer outages as repair teams are mobilised, get to the problem site, identify the problem, bring in the kit required to fix the issue then make good.

A minority of the population but one-size-fits-all will always pose risk for those outside the metropolitan elites.

Also please remember that ADSL/VDSL cabinets and mobile phone masts are normally built with very limited power back up. We have no mobile signal (although there is a planning application in for a mast) and the AIO VDSL cabinet went down 4 hours into our last 12 hour outage so the community (even those with their own power back-up) was without any internet access until the power was restored.

Edited by GonePostal (Fri 11-Aug-23 00:36:43)

There are PAYG sim providers who don't have minimum use policies and only require you to maintain a positive balance. My wife uses an old unlocked mobile and has never had more than £3 balance over past couple of years. She only has to make one call or send one text in a 12 month period.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

The point here is the ADSL was never supplied by Openreach as the wires went from your home to the exchange and at the exchange you had a choice of providers. Sky, TalkTalk and BTwholesale ran ADSL hardware and your ISP could choose.

With VDSL/FTTC the equipment moved to the street, so there was no way an operator like Sky or TalkTalk could compete, so the regulated Openreach provided wholesale services to all the providers at the exchange, again TalkTalk, Sky, and BTwholesale.

So they have a legal separate operation agreement, and Ofcom would like to know if you have any evidence. In the long run (25/30 years time) we may no longer care when the likes of CityFibre of nexFibre have created alternative networks.

I know how it works.

As for being separate, you must be a fool if you think Openreach is separate from BT, BT still owns it and still pulls the ropes. Openreach should be separated from BT. Taking BT off their vans don;'t change anything.