In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

The comparison was wrong, no altnet has a lower split ratio than Openreach's standard one or a more conservative capacity planning criteria.

Possibly the point was that Altnets have very few customers. If they planned for 100% coverage at a 32:1 split ratio, you're unlikely to have more than 3 or 4 customers on one PON - a bit more for Cityfibre. But then again, Altnets have probably already taken into account that they're unlikely to exceed 20-25% takeup and have designed the network accordingly. CityFibre have apparently hit capacity limits in a few areas.

Conversely, Openreach FTTP will eventually have close to 100% take-up when they migrate all existing customers off copper. But then again, Openreach's customer base includes lots of "normal" people who use broadband for nothing more than the odd phone call, browsing Amazon and the odd SD TV stream, so their impact on contention is effectively zero.

Openreach do ‘dimension’ their network to include every address in the PON area , but even the most optimistic OR employee isn’t expecting anything like 100% take up , possibly on a ‘newsite’ where no alternative is available, then there may be a higher take up rate , but many newsites have VM available from the outset as well as OR .

Although probably a little over simplistic, OR state a take up rate of around 30% , they have a practical limit of 30 users ( not 32 ) per splitter , so the chances are currently someone in a retro build area ( so copper also exists ) a PON/splitter is likely to have no more than around 10 users , obviously this may increase as copper pair users are encouraged to change to FTTP , but conversely customers may have multiple networks available ( Virgin , Alt Net ) so may actually decrease, so 100% take up is not very likely at all , TBH , I doubt poster that stated Alt Nets have a better split ratio was being that nuanced, it’s just their preconceptions of OR

Edited by Iniltous (Fri 30-Aug-24 10:33:20)

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Conversely, Openreach FTTP will eventually have close to 100% take-up when they migrate all existing customers off copper.

😂Around this neighbourhood the question will be if OR have any customers left when they roll out FTTP. The "cherry" has already been picked by alt net and VM.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Possibly the point was that Altnets have very few customers. If they planned for 100% coverage at a 32:1 split ratio, you're unlikely to have more than 3 or 4 customers on one PON - a bit more for Cityfibre. But then again, Altnets have probably already taken into account that they're unlikely to exceed 20-25% takeup and have designed the network accordingly.

I'll let my main ISP know: they're at 45% take up on my PON with a 1:128 ratio.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Around this neighbourhood the question will be if OR have any customers left when they roll out FTTP. The "cherry" has already been picked by alt net and VM.

How do you know this? Where I live there are 2 altnets, no VM, and no sign of OR FTTP. I would love to know what the local take-up of FTTP from the altnets is, but short of walking round and trying to spot splice boxes on walls I don't know any way to find out.

Ask Trooli what speed you can expect all the time. If they don't provide this speed follow the Ofcom code of practice.

FTTP ISPs sometimes use the connection speed which will be faster than the max rate that data can be sent or received because of the over heads.

If all you are doing is streaming some TV, browsing the internet and using email I doubt that you will notice a radical improvement.

The Trooli price for £150Mbps is less that I am paying for 40/10 FTTC! At a differernt I have had a Gigaclear FTTP service which has been fine for the past 9 years.

In reply to a post by Thaumaturge:

How do you know this? Where I live there are 2 altnets, no VM, and no sign of OR FTTP. I would love to know what the local take-up of FTTP from the altnets is, but short of walking round and trying to spot splice boxes on walls I don't know any way to find out.

I walk the neighbourhood and spot the VM boxes on the walls that accelerated after the first lockdown in 2020 when home working became a 'big thing'. My own FTTC speeds had been slowing fast, I moved to VM in 2019, because my original 60/4 service became a 40/2 service and I was fed up with slow upload. (Poor copper in my block of flats hindered the upload. Downstream reduction was described to me as likely cross talk as more and more people moved from 40/10 to 80/20 services as prices fell).

Our relatively new alt net is overhead, and has installed telegraph poles in roads that didn't have them before, so that is very easy to spot whom is connected as both OR and VM are underground.

I walk the neighbourhood and spot the VM boxes on the walls...

Mmm, much as I would have to do. The TBB broadband stats are, ahem, not very accurate around where I live. The broadband map only goes down to postcode granularity, and while most postcodes show as having at least one connection, they cover typically 30 addresses, so that might represent anything from 3% to 100% takeup.

One altnet did PIA here. The other dug up about 90% of the village and installed Toby pots. My connection is with them, but I live in the older part of the village where there were existing poles so I'm in the minority with an overhead connection from an OR pole. The OR copper is still there too, which makes the fibre connections less easy to spot.

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

Perhaps you can provide evidence of this .
As the OP is asking about a particular Alt Net , then referencing OR serves what purpose ?, apart from your almost pathological need to denigrate them

Ok, lets put it a different way, from reading around before I got zzoomm, I read that Openreach a contention ratio is 32-1, while Zzoomm has 20-1, so it may not be the same for all networks I suppose.

The info is not the easiest to get, I got from different forums and sites, and it seems that they match up with each other.
Oh do you feel superior using words like denigrate?

No, this is nothing to do with my hatred for OR and BT.

In reply to a post by YammerUK:

That's great information, thanks.

I see what you're saying about premises sharing connection equipment, similar to FTTC premises sharing an exchange DSL board. But what about the ISP end?

In the old days, you were limited by the amount of bandwidth the ISP could allocate per customer at peak periods, not the connection speed to the local exchange. So, it didn't matter what your headline "speed" was, you'd get throttled further down the line between the ISP and the LINX.

at the end of the day it will not make any difference to you, you will get the speed you pay for.