Arm computers.

I watched a video earlier on YouTube from a channel called explaining computers dot com. He built an Arm based machine, which is all very nice and such, but if this is the way computers are going, I am a bit bothered about some things. First of all the board, which is a Radxa ROCK 5 ITX can't be updated memory wise or CPU wise, what you buy is what you got, want more memory a new board, want more powerful CPU, again new board and no slots for a dedicated GPU. Around £130 for the 16GB version from Aliexpress, I presume it will become available from other places.

The board itself got some nice features, it can be run on an external PSU via the barrel jack or an internal ATX one, it has 2.5Gbits ethernet, two of them and they are also power PoE. Four sata connections, plus a NVMe. Also connection for audio like a normal motherboard has.

Being ITX it will fit in almost any case that can take ITX, well almost. If you watch the video, you will see there is a problem with the CPU fan and the case that was chosen.

Now looking at prices, this board is £130, which includes the CPU and 16GB of ram.

So you can pick up a MITX board for around £100, a cheap AMD Ryzen 3 with graphics for around £60 and 16GB of ram for around £40. So around £200 plus cooler and drives, which you have to buy for the Arm unit. Then case and PSU if needed. So for an extra £70 you get a machine which not only runs normal x86 operating systems, but also most software, maybe not superpower powerful, but will work fine and will run better than the ARM

The one advantage about the ARM machine is energy, it will use a lot less.

For a Nas or something like the Radxa would be ideal. It is a very interesting system. Maybe i am missing something.

Before anyone says anything, yes, I know I have gone down the ARM path with my Mac mini and a machine that can't be updated, but Macs are a different kettle of fish to a what we would call a PC. I still have my old PC and at some point it will be updated, I normally use it to play games these days, but for extra video rendering it will come in useful.

oh yes, the video link, which is interesting, even if he is a bit strange

https://youtu.be/6C8QTf7GLfs?si=FX4pacY0UoVrbQZr


Thoughts

To answer your question, no. It’s not an ARM architecture limit controlling expansion. It is the specific CPU designer; Broadcom, Apple, Qualcomm, etc that makes this decision.

It can be significantly quicker to have storage and RAM bonded to the package for a SIP.

It's quite possible to have an upgradeable ARM-based PC.

https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2023/everything-iv...

I realise it will be quicker to have it all bonded to the CPU, that is why Cache was boned to the CPU many years ago, or one of the reasons. The board I am on about, have access to external storage, it does have eMMC on board as well.

Ok that board is just a large SBC so to speak, but I do wonder if that is the way we are going?

If we are going to Arm, then the need to be able to add on more ram, even if it is slower and also some slots to add stuff like video cards.

That Radxa board is pretty nice, to be honest.

They are probably going for the NAS and basic desktop / kiosk applications (non-gaming).
I think with the featured case is it a bit too chunky for mounting behind a TV but could otherwise be an under-the-TV box with the media storage local.

I'd also be interested to see how it might do as a firewall appliance subject to FreeBSD hardware compatibility but the the storage options are superfluous.

Our chap is interested in seeing how well SBC as a category and ARM / RISC-V do at general computing and low power options and with his education background I'm sure that affects what aspects he focuses on.

He was interested in how easily it built (he didn't hide the fact that he needed to change the cooling rear attachment using his own fastenings).

The way that it is able to set itself up from the built-in storage was something he commented on which is a thing when people are so used buying Windows pre-installed.

Edited by prlzx (Mon 05-Aug-24 10:54:27)

In this case it isn't down to the CPU designer, the company that made the motherboard have opted to solder the RAM to the motherboard (assuming the CPU support socketed RAM). The RAM isn't on the CPU package in this case.

I think it would do well for a homemade NAS, my NAS has an Arm chip in, a Realtek RTD1296. It does okay for what I use it for, the main problem is memory or lack of it, 1GB, but again it was cheap.

But yes, if i was making my own NAS, I would certainly look at that board.

Chris from Explaining computers is a brainy person, even if he is a bit strange, and have done a lot of videos on SBCs. RISC-V is an interesting thing, but still has a long way to go.

I do like the way it can set itself up, I thought that was a great idea.

Just an interesting concept.

In reply to a post by andynormancx:

In this case it isn't down to the CPU designer, the company that made the motherboard have opted to solder the RAM to the motherboard (assuming the CPU support socketed RAM). The RAM isn't on the CPU package in this case.

All these SBC I have seen, seems to have built in memory and can't be change, maybe that is the way SBC is. I suppose that is also the way we are going. It is ok until you get a company like Apple that charges loads more to buy a machine with more memory than the base machine.