User comments on ISPs
  >> IDNet


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | [3] | 4 | (show all)   Print Thread
Standard User Croftie2
(newbie) Tue 05-Aug-25 21:23:08
Print Post

Re: What are your upload speeds like?


[re: jalzoo] [link to this post]
 
Thanks yeah that looks like mine does in the day and it's worse than that in the evening. So whatever is causing it is effecting both lines but one more than the other.
Standard User Croftie2
(newbie) Tue 05-Aug-25 21:25:02
Print Post

Re: What are your upload speeds like?


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
I can conform on AA via CF I do get 900+ on TBB's upload test.

Thanks that's good to know.
Standard User Croftie2
(learned) Tue 05-Aug-25 21:30:37
Print Post

Re: What are your upload speeds like?


[re: jalzoo] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jalzoo:
I was with AAISP with cityfibre but i changed due to the problems they were having with their routers firmwares. Was getting lots of drops in connection, Have they sorted that out now?. If they have i might have to buy out my contract with IDnet and change back to them.

I think those issues are now resolved.


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Standard User Croftie2
(learned) Wed 06-Aug-25 01:56:21
Print Post

Re: What are your upload speeds like?


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
In my experience, limited single-threaded throughput is due to low-level packet loss.

TCP treats packet loss as a signal of congestion, and slows down to avoid the network collapse - as it is designed to do.

However, packet loss which is *not* due to congestion will also cause TCP to slow down. Examples include links with low level bit errors, or microbursts of packets overflowing the limited buffer space in some switch in the path.

The formula is here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP_tuning#Packet_loss

The maximum throughput of a single TCP connection, in bytes per second, is MSS / (RTT * sqrt(Ploss))

If a single stream is limited to 300Mbps with 9ms round-trip time, this formula predicts your packet loss is

(1460/.009/(300000000/8))^2 = .0000187

which is about 1 in 50,000 packets dropped; a very tiny amount of loss indeed.

The TCP throughput you can get goes down as the RTT goes up. This becomes a real problem when doing inter-continental transfers.

Such tiny amounts of packet loss are very hard for the ISP to diagnose, especially as there are all sorts of places this might occur, and it's understandable that the ISP says "there's no problem".

However, iDNet do risk losing their reputation as "top class" service provider if they can't get to the bottom of it, when other ISPs demonstrably perform better. If they're serious about it, they could install perfSonar nodes at various points in their network and measure packet loss between them.

If you really need to upload or download large files at such high rates, the best way to do it is with multiple TCP streams, using a protocol designed for this application, e.g. GridFTP, or even Bittorrent.

Thanks for that detailed exlpaination, is there anything I can do on my end to identify any issues? The BQM did suddenly show an increase in maximum and bouts of increased avarege latency back in april while with aquiss and about 6 weeks after a swap form GPON to XGS-PON, it's exactly the same on idnet.
It started at about 3PM and I just happened to check the graph shortly after and rebooted the router which did nothing.
April
https://images2.imgbox.com/8d/d0/wB0dJrmA_o.jpg
Live
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/...


I do use a download manager where possible for large transfers but on the upload it's not usually possible for the stuff I use day to day, that's why it's such an issue when the single threaded performance is low, it's not something I'm looking forward to every evening for the next 12 months if it doesn't improve.

idnet is a mature company, I find it hard to believe they don't know the reason and solution for this but choose not to admit it or do anything about it. Perhaps network load for their business customers mostly dictates upgrades, if peak retail load which typically occurs outside business hours can be managed by throttling single threads, something most users wouldn't notice, then it probably saves them a lot of costly upgrades that wouldn't benefit their core business.

My last reply to support was a week ago now and I've not had a reply back. Whatever is going on I just want a resolution or to leave, don't know if I should agree to be swapped to zen backhaul, it might bring it's own problems. Paying for 2350Mbps with only 1-200Mbps actually usable doesn't seem right. It is a shared best efforts service with no guaranteed minimum but come on... that's less than 10%!
Standard User candlerb
(knowledge is power) Wed 06-Aug-25 09:38:55
Print Post

Re: What are your upload speeds like?


[re: Croftie2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Croftie2:
is there anything I can do on my end to identify any issues? The BQM did suddenly show an increase in maximum and bouts of increased avarege latency back in april while with aquiss and about 6 weeks after a swap form GPON to XGS-PON, it's exactly the same on idnet.

BQM only sends one packet per second, and can only detect 1%+ of packet loss, which is a grossly high level; it also depends on your router responding consistently to all pings, which not all do.

There's not that much you can do at your end. Well, you *could* install a perfsonar node, and also run perfsonar in a remote data centre somewhere. On the default settings, it sends 10 packets per second, so 36,000 per hour; it might see one packet drop per hour or two in your case. You can crank it up to send more packets. But it is not designed to work behind NAT; it's for network operators who have public IP addresses for everything.

And even then, all you could do is demonstrate the problem. And iDNet are likely to say "that level of packet loss is tiny, it's all working fine, go away".

In reply to a post by Croftie2:
Perhaps network load for their business customers mostly dictates upgrades, if peak retail load which typically occurs outside business hours can be managed by throttling single threads, something most users wouldn't notice, then it probably saves them a lot of costly upgrades that wouldn't benefit their core business.

As I said before: I think it's not network load (= congestion). I think it's packet loss. Upgrading network capacity is unlikely to make a difference. It may be a bad fibre termination that needs cleaning, or it may be a switch with insufficient buffering, or a bunch of other difficult-to-diagnose conditions.

Other ways to prove this: try a single-thread test to some servers a bit further away, say in Europe, and then further away again, say USA. If you find the single thread speed is inversely proportional to the round-trip time, that's a strong indication of packet loss.

Also, if you find the performance doesn't vary much throughout the day, then that's also a suggestion of packet loss rather than congestion - although some packet loss will be load-related (e.g. microbursts).

In reply to a post by Croftie2:
My last reply to support was a week ago now and I've not had a reply back. Whatever is going on I just want a resolution or to leave, don't know if I should agree to be swapped to zen backhaul, it might bring it's own problems. Paying for 2350Mbps with only 1-200Mbps actually usable doesn't seem right. It is a shared best efforts service with no guaranteed minimum but come on... that's less than 10%!

But in terms of packets they deliver, they deliver 99.998% of them.

In general it is very hard to get high throughput on TCP except on LANs where the RTT is less than 1ms.
Standard User tboorman
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 06-Aug-25 12:23:08
Print Post

Re: What are your upload speeds like?


[re: jalzoo] [link to this post]
 
That would be Cityfibre National backhaul that you are on.

With zen backhaul your first hop would be something like this: redbus-gw11.idnet.net


I'm on Zen backhaul, and my traceroute looks like this:

Text
1
23
45
67
8
Tracing route to 151.101.128.81 over a maximum of 30 hops
   1    90 ms     1 ms     1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2    14 ms    10 ms    10 ms  telehouse-gw11.idnet.net [212.69.63.20]  3    12 ms    11 ms    14 ms  telehouse-gw8.idnet.net [212.69.63.144]
  4    12 ms    11 ms    11 ms  telehouse-gw7.idnet.net [212.69.63.169]  5     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  6    12 ms    11 ms    11 ms  151.101.128.81

Edited by tboorman (Wed 06-Aug-25 12:29:17)

Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Wed 06-Aug-25 13:42:19
Print Post

Re: What are your upload speeds like?


[re: jalzoo] [link to this post]
 
Seems good now, I have had none of these issues since my CF line went live, I activated the CF service I think not long after they rolled back the firmware. There has only been the occasional planned maintenance.

Standard User Croftie2
(learned) Wed 06-Aug-25 15:55:31
Print Post

Re: What are your upload speeds like?


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Ok thanks, speed to google in london is better than to filefactory in the netherlands both have lowerr speed during the evening.
Standard User Croftie2
(learned) Wed 06-Aug-25 16:03:40
Print Post

Re: What are your upload speeds like?


[re: tboorman] [link to this post]
 
Your the first person I've seen on zen backhaul via cityfibre. Did you get put on zen backhaul after having speed issues?

Would you mind running iperf preferably via a cable?
Text
1
iperf3  -c speedtest.idnet.net


My tracroute for comparison in the midlands. Are you north of here?
Text
1
23
45
6
1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  OpenWrt.lan [192.168.1.1]
  2     8 ms     6 ms     6 ms  telehouse-gw11.idnet.net [212.69.63.20]  3     6 ms     6 ms     6 ms  telehouse-gw8.idnet.net [212.69.63.144]
  4     6 ms     *        7 ms  telehouse-gw7.idnet.net [212.69.63.169]  5     8 ms     6 ms     6 ms  5.57.81.59
  6     8 ms     6 ms     6 ms  151.101.128.81
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Fri 08-Aug-25 21:20:31
Print Post

Re: What are your upload speeds like?


[re: Croftie2] [link to this post]
 
Here you go, seems tab was still open.

https://community.spiceworks.com/t/low-upload-speed-...

Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | [3] | 4 | (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to