Your iPhone is tracking you

http://petewarden.github.com/iPhoneTracker/

It knows where you've been...

The network knows where you have been regardless of the phone.

And also, your data is at risk if your phone get half-inched.

Downloaded the programme. Bloomin' interesting. Apparently I've been to Worcester. That came as news to me.

>YOU DID++ WE SAW YOU++

HerDaHer - there ARE ways round it Bats... _/\_ <---TFH Active!

I doubt the accuracy of the tracking myself. Outside the UK, the record correctly shows me in places from Rome to Koh Samui to Madrid, Dubai, Marrakech, Paris, Munich and Goa, but Indonesia? That's somewhere I have never been! In the UK it seems I am a frequent visitor to somewhere near Liverpool, which is odd since the last time I was anywhere near Liverpool is 20 years ago. Likewise, I have been to somewhere near Ipswich and to Dartford, which isn't the case.

Its worse than that

In reference to uk.ibtimes.com/articles/137471/20110424/why-apple-is-tracking-you.htm:

Apple's iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS, the iPhone 4, and iPad models are also keeping track of consumers whereabouts. Mac computers running Snow Leopard and even Windows computers running Safari 5 are being watched.

You're scaremongering. Well, trying to- in practice you're just showing that you're a troll.

A mobile phone that didn't allow anyone to keep track of where it was would be of limited use... and as for Snow Leopard and Safari, it's up to you- if you're that paranoid then just turn Location Services off.

I think you'd have to do the same in Windows?

It's a shocker isn't it? Internet browsers tracking people. Whatever next (mind you I was rather amused to see by how far Facebook had miscalculated my location).

showing that you're a troll.

Isn't that a tad of a tautology?

Android phones are doing the same and I trust Google less than I do Apple.

http://www.bytemining.com/2011/04/location-tracking-...

Who gives a toss anyway? If the police or anyone else wants your location at a particular point in time they can get logs from the phone company.

And if you were worried, then this shows you shouldn't be:

http://geothought.blogspot.com/2011/04/scoop-apples-...

B

Sounds okay to me.

Anyway, so long as the info is not transmitted back to Apple there's no way anyone can get the info without having your phone or your computer.

In reply to a post by gilesjuk:

Who gives a toss anyway? If the police or anyone else wants your location at a particular point in time they can get logs from the phone company.

Bravo! Rational thinking at last!

Now that's what I call analysis...

It overwrites repeat data!

In reply to a post by billford:

You're scaremongering. Well, trying to- in practice you're just showing that you're a troll.

A mobile phone that didn't allow anyone to keep track of where it was would be of limited use... and as for Snow Leopard and Safari, it's up to you- if you're that paranoid then just turn Location Services off.

I think you'd have to do the same in Windows?

Yeah, that's it -scaremongering by commenting on what's actually happening. A bit different to other scaremongers who comment on what isn't actually happening. Of course the iPhone isn't spying on you, that's why it creates a log on your PC and makes sure it's backed up. After all, if you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to worry about.

However, it does look like it's recording your location history and the two researchers were quite right to raise their concerns. By making the app public, they made it easy for others to research and discuss the issue - on discussion forums.

How revolutionary.

How scary.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

However, it does look like it's recording your location history and the two researchers were quite right to raise their concerns. By making the app public, they made it easy for others to research and discuss the issue - on discussion forums.

I'm sure the owners of the devices are very grateful for an app that tells them the last time they visited a location, even if most of them are imprecise and some of them are wrong.

Little bit of advice- just quit while you're losing...

In reply to a post by billford:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

However, it does look like it's recording your location history and the two researchers were quite right to raise their concerns. By making the app public, they made it easy for others to research and discuss the issue - on discussion forums.

I'm sure the owners of the devices are very grateful for an app that tells them the last time they visited a location, even if most of them are imprecise and some of them are wrong.

Little bit of advice- just quit while you're losing...

Losing?

I have no doubt the iPhone has a good reason to know the location. But why does it store it on the PC?

It lists places I've never been to and it is never sent to anyone therefore it's not tracking.

The Find My iPhone feature must use this for assistance, I'm sure if your phone was nicked or misplaced you would want to get it back.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

I have no doubt the iPhone has a good reason to know the location. But why does it store it on the PC?

It doesn't.

It stores it on the machine running Snow Leopard or Safari.

The latest developments probably haven't reached your bridge yet, but both these programs can run on these new-fangled computers that can be used on the move- laptops, they're usually called.

Try Googling for them, you'll be fascinated with what they can do these days.

In reply to a post by billford:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

I have no doubt the iPhone has a good reason to know the location. But why does it store it on the PC?

It doesn't.

It stores it on the machine running Snow Leopard or Safari.

You misunderstand - why does the iPhone store the location info on the PC?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

You misunderstand

Oh no I don't... I understand you perfectly

In reply to a post by billford:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

You misunderstand

Oh no I don't... I understand you perfectly

In that case, this doesn't make sense

It doesn't.

It stores it on the machine running Snow Leopard or Safari.

I think that statement is a little unfair in view of the fact that two US Senators and representatives from a number of other Governments (in particular Germany, where they are rather hot on privacy, as well as France, Italy, and Korea) have requested further information from Apple.

It may well turn out that there is nothing untoward happening, but to dismiss this - at this stage - as mere scaremongering on BatBoy's part seems perilously close to the fanboi philosophy that Apple can do no wrong. And I'm sure that you are more sensible than that.

Jobs has said they aren't tracking anyone. So he's either a liar or mistaken. I wouldn't imagine he is lying.

In reply to a post by gilesjuk:

Jobs has said they aren't tracking anyone. So he's either a liar or mistaken. I wouldn't imagine he is lying.

Mistaken then.

Jobs has indeed said that Apple aren't tracking anyone. And, strictly speaking, he may well be right. We shall see how Apple reply to the enquiries made by those Governments.

But, it seems, BatBoy is quite right that your iPhone - if not Apple - is tracking you and keeping a record of that tracking data on the phone and on the computer that it links to. You may see nothing wrong with such unencrypted data being available to the Police, a spouse, or an employer; I'm not sure that everyone would agree. I'm not sure that Apple in 1984 would have agreed either.

But, whether you agree or not, it is not unreasonable that some people see this as a cause for concern. So to dismiss BatBoy's post as "scaremongering" is treading a little too close to the fanboi line for my liking.

It's very sketchy data and it lists places I've not been to. So it's pretty useless for "tracking" someone.

Not to mention you need physical access to the phone or a computer to actually view the information.

At least it is easy to get to, Google have hidden their version away and made it harder to access (and therefore harder to remove).

Edited by deleted (Tue 26-Apr-11 21:03:10)

He's a huge control freak, there is no way he would be mistaken.

you need physical access to the phone or a computer to actually view the information

And a spouse or employer wouldn't have that, would they? In the US the Police are already making use of this information (much more convenient than having to go through the courts to get access to data from the phone companies).

He's a huge control freak

I think that sums it up nicely. It also explains the presence of the tracking data (not to mention US Patent Application 12/553,554).

In reply to a post by gilesjuk:

Jobs has said they aren't tracking anyone.

That's true, they aren't tracking just anyone - they're tracking everyone

Loved that comment.

Don't confuse political showboating with inquiry. Franken seems unaware that all of the information was deposed to Congress in July last year.

I am amused at your faith in politicians.

Turn off anti-Apple bleating, engage brain. Read. Learn:

In reference to geothought.blogspot.com/2011/04/scoop-apples-iphone-is-not-storing-...:

"When a customer requests current location information ... Apple will retrieve known locations for nearby cell towers and Wi-Fi access points from its proprietary database and transmit the data back to the device" ... "The device uses the information, along with GPS coordinates (if available), to determine its actual location. Information about the device's location is not transmitted to Apple, Skyhook or Google. Nor is it transmitted to any third-party application provider, unless the customer expressly consents".

In the FC thread you already been pointed to the Levinson blog where he explains how he documented this months ago.

Apple's deposition is here: http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/gadgetlab/2011/04/...

But why do research when you can idly speculate.

When president Blair proliferated the use of street cameras up and down the country, nobody complained about privacy. It's quite fascinating in this internet age that people get upset when they discover a mobile phone knows where they are.

People are glad they can locate their phone if they lose it. For that to happen the phone has to be able to transmit its location.

Apple statement:

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/04/27location_q...

So: "Apple is not tracking the location of your iPhone. Apple has never done so and has no plans to ever do so."

Bloomin' Big Brother. What a wuss.

Sometime in the next few weeks Apple will release a free iOS software update that:

�reduces the size of the crowd-sourced Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower database cached on the iPhone,

�ceases backing up this cache, and

�deletes this cache entirely when Location Services is turned off.

Why?

"We're not doing anything wrong, but we'll stop doing it (not that we are doing it)."

For reason explained in the rest of the statement.

Nicely dishonest selective quoting.

In reply to a post by ian_c:

For reason explained in the rest of the statement.

Nicely dishonest selective quoting.

In reference to www.nytimes.com/2011/04/28/technology/28apple.html:

Apple acknowledged that it had made mistakes, which it attributed to programming errors, in storing the data for a long time, keeping the file unencrypted and storing the data even when users had chosen to turn off location services.

Apple said it would reduce the location cache on the iPhone to no more than seven days. The company also said it would stop backing up the cache onto people�s computers and would delete the cache entirely when users turned off location services.

I don't need the NYT to tell me what is in the actual statement when it is linked two posts up - any more than the world needs a bridge-dweller like you.

In reply to a post by ian_c:

I don't need the NYT to tell me what is in the actual statement when it is linked two posts up - any more than the world needs a bridge-dweller like you.

Is the data captured by the iPhone and backed-up on the PC being sent to Apple?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Is the data captured by the iPhone and backed-up on the PC being sent to Apple?

Which part of "no" don't you understand?

In reply to a post by ian_c:

Apple statement:

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/04/27location_q...

So: "Apple is not tracking the location of your iPhone. Apple has never done so and has no plans to ever do so."

Continuing to troll may not be one of your better ideas.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by ian_c:

I don't need the NYT to tell me what is in the actual statement when it is linked two posts up - any more than the world needs a bridge-dweller like you.

Is the data captured by the iPhone and backed-up on the PC being sent to Apple?

Which PC being sent to Apple?

In reply to a post by billford:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Is the data captured by the iPhone and backed-up on the PC being sent to Apple?

Which part of "no" don't you understand?

It says here it is

5. Can Apple locate me based on my geo-tagged Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower data?
No. This data is sent to Apple in an anonymous and encrypted form. Apple cannot identify the source of this data.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

5. Can Apple locate me based on my geo-tagged Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower data?
No. This data is sent to Apple in an anonymous and encrypted form. Apple cannot identify the source of this data.

Replaced your bold with mine.

It's hardly tracking if you can't identify the sender!

Batbaby now you are making yourself look less like a troll and more like a retard. I recommend remedial reading classes - and this time, try staying awake..

The data in consolidated.db is not sent to Apple, but received from Apple. It comes from a database (similar to skyhook) made up of millions of anonymised reports.

Apple cannot identify the source of this data.

Edited by ian_c (Wed 27-Apr-11 23:41:59)

In reply to a post by ian_c:

Batbaby now you are making yourself look less like a troll and more like a retard. I recommend remedial reading classes - and this time, try staying awake..

The data in consolidated.db is not sent to Apple, but received from Apple.

Then what data is sent to Apple, as referred to in point 5?

It is explained in the statement. Neither Apple, nor I, can be held responsible for your poor comprehension skills.

As far as I can see, there's nothing in the statement that says this data sending and receiving will stop.

Link

It's all clear enough to me, and I haven't even got an iPhone

It's also clear to me that, as BatBoy (and Apple) say, data is sent to Apple. Apple say that they cannot identify the source of that data.

Well, at least we have now established, despite Ian's spluttering, that the data is sent to Apple. The tracking that people are concerned about occurs on the phone and its linked PC and may fairly easily be accessed by third parties. This is the issue that Apple say they will address. Good.

Along the lines of what Ian said- a nicely dishonest interpretation of what actually happens.

But that's getting to be expected

It's sent from the phone and only your current location. It isn't identifiable data.

Android does exactly the same.

Current cell towers and access points. To help build up a map of approximate locations which is used on the map application until the GPS chip had got a lock on.

It's a form of ephemeris data. Look that up.

But unless that data is contains your phone number or itunes account then it isn't really a lot of use for tracking?

With any location based service you're going to need to share your approximate location with someone for them to tell you what is available in your area.

It's simple, you switch of location services and it then stops.

Do you even know what location based services are? you can't get information on the nearest restaurant or bus stop if you don't send back your location.

What Apple and Google are doing is building up a map of cell networks, access points to provide a rapid GPS lock on. Sending back some very approximate location data (which can't be linked to you) isn't a big deal.

If you could tell somebody where you were but didn't tell them who you were then that isn't considered privacy invasion surely?

at least we have now established, despite Ian's spluttering, that the data is sent to Apple.

That is a lie, bordering on trolling - something you have form for in this forum.

A couple of times a day opt-out anonymised data is sent to Apple for it skyhook clone (something that Apple asks consent for at set up). This has never been in dispute, despite F-Secure's bluster and your Battyesque comprehension skills.

The data in consolidated.db is received from Apple (last week I was in High Wycombe needing to navigate around a bunch of unfamiliar areas. The first time it located me, my phone took a few seconds. Thereafter it was as near to instant as makes no odds, something GPS can't do - that is what the database is for).

Again, Read. Learn

BTW, it turns out the reason Apple's file has so much data is that they chose a file size limit (2mb) rather than a time limit for pruning.

2mb is a LOT of essentially text data. So although Apple calls it a bug, more realistically it was a heuristic error in Apples "How do we limit the file size to something manageable" reasoning. There was no programming fault a such, it was just a choice that came from a particular point of view - cache size, rather than data retention (and no, batty, they aren't the same thing).

But unless that data is contains your phone number or itunes account then it isn't really a lot of use for tracking?

True. But that's not what BatBoy asserted. He just said that data was sent from the PC to Apple; it is.

It concerns me that a mod is accusing another user of trolling when he is merely reporting facts about which some people have concerns. Whether those concerns are justified or not is another matter. For someone such as Ian to accuse all and sundry of trolling doesn't matter; when a moderator starts doing so it is more serious.

It's simple, you switch of location services and it then stops.

Actually, at present, it doesn't. That is one of the faults that Apple have promised to address with a software update.

a nicely dishonest disinterested interpretation of what actually happens.

I've corrected that for you.

What part of the interpretation is dishonest? By default:

Is data sent from the PC to Apple?

Is data stored on the PC and phone unencrypted?

Does that data provide a track of places where a user has been, and times they were there?

Is that data potentially accessible to third parties?

And, most importantly, have Apple accepted that there are current problems which they have promised to address with a software update?

In reply to a post by AEP:

It's simple, you switch of location services and it then stops.

Actually, at present, it doesn't.

Wrong.

It stops the location services, the bug is that it doesn't delete historic data.

In reply to a post by AEP:

Is data sent from the PC to Apple?

Depends what you mean by data- it anonymously reports the geo-tag of any base station that it can pick up, that's all. As the documentation says, that could be 100 miles away.

Is data stored on the PC and phone unencrypted?

Yes. So?

Does that data provide a track of places where a user has been, and times they were there?

No, it stores a list, not a track. If you visit a location twice, the second visit over-writes the first.

Is that data potentially accessible to third parties?

Only if you give them the phone.

And, most importantly, have Apple accepted that there are current problems which they have promised to address with a software update?

Problems? No. Merely something that could have been done differently.

The data is still collected and stored on the phone in an unencrypted format. Should the phone fall into the wrong hands that data would be clearly available to a third party.

Should the phone fall into the wrong hands ...

...you will have much more significant things to worry about than a not very useful, accurate or even up-to-date list.

Or you could, you know, remote wipe the phone...

Although, of course, there are several well documented cases of users recovering stolen phones by using the ability to locate it.

If you don't want your trolling pointed out the simple solution is to stop trolling.

In reply to a post by AEP:

Should the phone fall into the wrong hands that data would be clearly available to a third party.

Should my phone fall into the wrong hands I'd be a damned sight more concerned about them having access to my contacts list, texts/emails I've sent/received and using the bandwidth/calls that I've paid for rather than an unsorted and not very accurate list of places I may (or may not) have visited.

The data in the database file is NOT sent to Apple. That file is a cache of data received. Hence why it contains data for places you have never been. I've never been to London with my iPhone ever.

The data which is transmitted to Apple is not stored anywhere.

That's fair enough. But different people have different concerns. Some are concerned about the amount of data that is collected about their location by various means.

I'd have no concerns about my contacts list falling into the hands of a third party, or even e-mails that I have sent and received. I wouldn't keep any data on a mobile device that was, to my mind, sensitive. And I'd rather that other peole didn't store such data on any mobile device that I might use.

The data received from Apple is not accurate, in many cases it can only pin point you to within 100 miles. Hardly of use to any law enforcers or the wife.

Since the data sent to Apple is anonymous it's of no use for tracking you.

The data which is transmitted to Apple is not stored anywhere.

Apple just receive it and then throw it away? I don't believe you.

In reply to a post by AEP:

That's fair enough. But different people have different concerns. Some are concerned about the amount of data that is collected about their location by various means.

That's fair enough too.

So it's reassuring that no data is collected about your location.


edit- unless you explicitly authorise it, of course.

Edited by billford (Thu 28-Apr-11 12:55:20)

The maps that I have seen produced from this data seem to be highly specific. There are some outliers but they are easily discarded.

If the information is useless then why do US law enforcement officers make use of it?

Currently, data is collected on an iPhone that shows locations that a user has visited to a fair degree of accuracy. Not to a building level perhaps, but certainly information that could be useful to a malevolent third party.

You can play semantics and say that this doesn't constitute "data collected about your location" if you like.

Edit - The situation about authorisation will, presumably, change when the software update is released.

But the data stored on the iPhone, and associated computer, is useful for tracking you.

In reply to a post by AEP:

The maps that I have seen produced from this data seem to be highly specific.

Of course it is, Apple knows the location of the various base stations to a high degree of accuracy, I would imagine.

What does that have to do with where the phone was at the time?

why do US law enforcement officers make use of it?

I imagine it can be a useful guide at times, if the data says a suspect was in Texas on some particular date when he claimed to be in Alaska, for example.

But if you want more detail you'll have to ask them.

In reply to a post by AEP:

You can play semantics

Well, credit where it's due, that's something you excel at.

I imagine it can be a useful guide at times, if the data says a suspect was in Texas on some particular date when he claimed to be in Alaska, for example.

I'm glad that you can appreciate how this information can be of use to a third party.

It's just another facet of the creeping infringement upon us by various surveillance systems, some obvious some less so. Apple are by no means the only offender, but every little bit adds up.

You are deltathenads in disguise, and I claim my £5.

I see that you have run out of arguments now. Understandable.

You can have the £5 if you can tell me what my location is at 3pm today, to within half a mile.

Edited by deleted (Thu 28-Apr-11 13:19:49)

Set a thief to catch a thief.

In reply to a post by AEP:

You can have the £5 if you can tell me what my location is at 3pm today, to within half a mile.

You've just proved my (and Ian's and Giles') point for me, thanks

Ah - but I don't have an iPhone.

I'm sure someone from Google would be able to tell us. They do after all love data mining.

I doubt it. I was nowhere near a computer and my mobile phone is just a simple one (and was switched off anyway).

But rest assured that I had a nice afternoon wherever I was.

In reply to a post by AEP:

Ah - but I don't have an iPhone.

So it wasn't a serious challenge

You were just trolling... thought that was the real motive.

A gentleman's club?

It was a serious (if somewhat whimsical) challenge - to make my point that, without an iPhone, you couldn't track me.

You bandy about the word "trolling" a lot. It doesn't mean someone who disagrees with you. Your use of that word against BatBoy many times in this thread when he was just reporting concerns that are being voiced in many places is unjustified. It is particularly unjustified as it carries the implicit threat, as you are a moderator, that you will take action against "trolling" just because you disagree with him.

You accuse me of being Delta and I reply with a bit of light-hearted banter. That is not trolling, it's just a whimsical quip. Don't take criticism of some aspects of Apple's products so seriously.

I expect that from Ian - he knows no better - but I like to think that you are more sensible. Reports of concerns about an Apple product are not trolling, even in the Apple forum.

A nice thought, but no. I would have to agree with Groucho about Gentlemen's clubs.

Even simple cell phones track you. Your carrier could locate you much more quickly that Apple, since Apple would have to phone you and ask where you are.

In reply to a post by AEP:

Reports of concerns about an Apple product are not trolling, even in the Apple forum.

They are when they continue to be made after they have been demonstrated to be baseless, and especially when the poster relies on increasing nit-picking with regard to the exact words being used in order to avoid having to admit they were wrong.

Even in the Apple forum.

They are when they continue to be made after they have been demonstrated to be baseless

But it has been demonstrated that the location database is stored on the iPhone and on the PC in unencrypted for. That does not demonstrate that the concerns are baseless.

Anyway, I'd hate to get banned for "trolling" just becasue I disagree with you so I think I'll cut out before things get nasty.

I expect that from Ian - he knows no better

Your total lack of self-awareness is your least appealing feature.

But you are right - mere disagreement is not trolling.

Repeatedly disregarding arguments and information that others provide, while deceitfully and selectively quoting from material that you know full well addresses the thing you affect to be concerned about....

...now that's trolling.

(You do realise Batty was just trying to get a rise out of the "It's not a PC it's a Mac" brigade, don't you? And that the discussion here is about phones, not PCs (whether Mac, 'doze or Linux)?

Don't you?)

This is starting to feel like the fukushima thread, and that kinda blew up on you billford.

In reply to a post by AEP:

But it has been demonstrated that the location database is stored on the iPhone

No it hasn't. Only a list of locations that have come within range is stored, that is not a database and nor are they "user locations" in any meaningful sense of the phrase.

The full database is too big to be stored on the device and a subset is only sent on request for calculation purposes, afaik that is not stored. Nor is any of it available to third parties.

All this, and much else, has been pointed out to you.

I've never yet banned anyone for disagreeing with me and don't intend to, but I (and the other moderators here) have banned posters for persistently pursuing a point that has been demonstrated to be false.

It's called trolling.

The full database is too big to be stored on the device and a subset is only sent on request for calculation purposes, afaik that is not stored

For clarity the calculation is not stored, nor transmitted. The hoo-ha was over a larger than expected cache of the base data, which Scott Forstall explained and which I outlined upthread, in response to giles.

Summary: they did not ask "how long should the data be stored?" they asked "What size of cache is appropriate?" and (mistakenly, perhaps) seem to have assumed that this answered the first question.

Mind you I am pretty cross: someone elsehwere described going though the data map as "like going through old photos" - it reminded him of things (journeys) and made him smile. The panicky spacks have now robbed us of that.

Concerns that are misconceptions and that have now been clarified.

For the last time, the file on the iPhone and on the computer is a database containing data that has been !!!!!!!RECEIVED!!!!!!!! from Apple servers.

Received means download, it is not data that has been locally generated and logged. It is not a log of data that has been uploaded.

It is a cache of data that has been downloaded!

Honestly, do you whingers have a job in IT or doing anything technical at all?

Edited by deleted (Thu 28-Apr-11 20:34:59)

It may know where you've been, but this is simply a location dump database, Apple DO NOT use this information in their business strategies or sell it to 3rd parties.

I've never yet banned anyone for disagreeing with me and don't intend to, but I (and the other moderators here) have banned posters for persistently pursuing a point that has been demonstrated to be false.

I've never seen you ban yourself.. ??!

In reply to a post by gilesjuk:

For the last time, the file on the iPhone and on the computer is a database containing data that has been !!!!!!!RECEIVED!!!!!!!! from Apple servers.

Where did the Apple servers get the data from?

One more trolling post and you're out.

When you use an application that requests a precise location the phone uploads anonymous data to Apple which consists of the cells you are talking to and any WIFI access point names in the range.

It's exactly how Android does it too.

This data is uploaded and not stored in the database file contained on the phone.

It is used to get a more rapid position and is known as a hybrid positioning system of which there are many:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_positioning_system

Apple used to use SkyHook but are now building up their own database, hence the upload of data.

Edited by deleted (Thu 28-Apr-11 22:37:38)

It's exactly how TomTom does it too.

In reply to a post by 12eason:

It's exactly how TomTom does it too.

I'm not limited to one ban per evening...

Edited by billford (Thu 28-Apr-11 22:46:49)

Are you limited by how drunk you are?

What about Android?

Or won't a Fandroid admit their platform has privacy issues?

�Android phones are wardriving,� Kamkar told The Register. �They're sending all your GPS coordinates. They know how fast you're traveling. Theres a unique identifier that's always sent.�

Lets not forget the Google Streetview cars that collected Wifi IDs and even emails!!

Edited by deleted (Thu 28-Apr-11 22:58:36)

I'm sure he'll get back to you in due course.

Conveniently ignoring everything I wrote

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/28/google_sued_...

The difference is Android sends a unique identifier, but the data Apple sends is anonymous. Therefore iPhones can't be tracked but Android phones can in theory.

Who knew that phones don't triangulate? Terrific feature. What tech journalism should be.

I wonder if Mr. Bin Laden had an iPhone.. hmmm...

Hardly likely given he didn't have the Internet or a phone line.

All the three big players are collecting data, so maybe you should stop trolling?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/05/02/device_data_...

More coverage of the Google case.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/140289/20110502/goog...

Unlike Apple's iOS, there is a limit on the size of the file, so only the last 200 Wi-Fi networks and 50 cell tower locations are recorded. But the data is transmitted along with a unique identifier for the phone itself, and is unencrypted.

The unique identifier is the critical thing, it allows for tracking. We all know how Google likes to data mine.

In reply to a post by gilesjuk:

Hardly likely given he didn't have the Internet or a phone line.

All the three big players are collecting data, so maybe you should stop trolling?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/05/02/device_data_...

Doubtless, in order to demonstrate their complete fair-mindedness and lack of antipathy to Apple, certain posters will be raising, and persisting with, similar warning threads in other forums...

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

I wonder if Mr. Bin Laden had an iPhone.. hmmm...

He had a satellite phone http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/540781/posts

"Had" being the operative word:

Posted on Friday October 05, 23:27:10 GMT+0100 2001

Edited by billford (Tue 03-May-11 00:58:36)

It's crazy. Apple screwed up with a cache file that was bigger than it should have been (although it should probably be wiped when you quit the map app).

But in terms of privacy and tracking, Google is public enemy number 1. They don't anonymise the data collected!

Things get lost or stolen...

After all, if thieves are happy to rummage through your rubbish, and iPhone would be a tempting target...

Edited by deleted (Tue 03-May-11 14:05:56)

I must admit I dont get it either - why is the data being sent to Apple in the first place ? Is it generic "diagnostic" information or contains a lot more stuff ?

That's the point. That the data is stored on the phone is no big deal; that it's stored unencrypted is just careless.

In reply to a post by MrTAToad2:

I must admit I dont get it either - why is the data being sent to Apple in the first place ? Is it generic "diagnostic" information or contains a lot more stuff ?

That's explained in several posts (and links to external sources) throughout the thread.

As the non-issue raised in the opening post in this thread has been fully dealt with, and some people (not you) seem determined to maintain their misleading comments regardless, this thread is closed.