Mac mini M4

Not that i am going to get one because mini is only 20 months old, but this new design is no doubt what they are going to use on Mac minis going forward.

What do people think of it? The power button on the bottom is a bit strange, but my problem would be the audio port being on the front. I use that on my Mac to go to an amp, it would look strange to have a cable coming from the front of the unit to the amp. I know it is possible to buy a splitter unit for the HDMI, so the audio goes elsewhere, but that is more money.

I must admit, apart from those two things, I like the look of it, but I would be worried about it being dragged off the desk with the cables, my Mac nini moves a fair bit as it is.

I think it’s a great piece of packaging / design overall. Especially when you consider they’ve shoe-horned a mains power supply in there too. I can’t think of any other PCs in that size class that do that, most use an external power brick (like the very original Mac Mini did!).

Position of the audio jack is personal preference. I can see why they’ve done it on the front for folks that want to connect headphones without having to reach and fumble around the back of the machine. Otherwise a good job with all the other selection of ports and Thunderbolt 5 on the Pro versions is great - getting near enough full PCIe4x4 speeds 8+ GBytes/sec from an external drive will be awesome in time.

The power button position is a bit weird. I think they’ve done that out of packaging necessity. But not a deal breaker in my opinion.

I agree, how they fitted all of that in such a small space is amazing. Chatting to some people last night online and one of then is thinking about the Mac mini M4, but the lack of USB A puts them off, I know you can get converters or hubs, but it is another thing. Saying that, for me the ports being on the back is a pain anyway and some sort of hub is required, which is I why I have one, also able to put more storage under the mac.

Not sure what I would do if I was looking at buying another Mac, maybe i would go for a Imac, I like the Mac mini, but I got it because it was a cheaper way of getting into the Mac world and to see if I liked it.

I can see why they left USB-A out of such a tight package. You can get more than what you want from the USB-C / Thunderbolt ports.

USB-A is ancient tech by comparison, and deservedly needs to get relegated now. It's 30 years old almost. USB-C / Thunderbolt comparatively serve more functions and throughput more than USB-A and are smaller. If they had real estate and space to burn then different matter. But I wouldn't get hung up on that.

If it is a deal-breaker then it's simply the wrong box for them. Gotta move on (at some point) and Apple are famously ruthless, when it comes to doing away what they think are 'old' / non-useful ports on new boxes. On this one I tend to agree.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I agree, how they fitted all of that in such a small space is amazing.

Some exceptionally good CPU engineers work at Apple, and they have achieved things that only the Nuva outfit (bought by Qualcomm) can seemingly compete with.

Chatting to some people last night online and one of then is thinking about the Mac mini M4, but the lack of USB A puts them off

That's the same argument my friends had when their new iPhone SE 3, and similar came with USB-C to lightning cables. They wanted USB-A as they had chargers. I suggested they should "look forwards" as USB-C is amazing. I've moved my entire fleet over, selling older wall warts to friends or CEX as needed.

I know you can get converters or hubs, but it is another thing. Saying that, for me the ports being on the back is a pain anyway and some sort of hub is required, which is I why I have one, also able to put more storage under the mac.

At least the M4 Mini has ports on the front, like the Mac Studio, better than ANY model of Mac Mini before.

Not sure what I would do if I was looking at buying another Mac, maybe i would go for a Imac, I like the Mac mini, but I got it because it was a cheaper way of getting into the Mac world and to see if I liked it.

Depends if you want the screen, but remember screens last a lot longer than computers these days, this is the reason the 27" iMac is no longer made. The type of people whom bought that, would be annoyed having to replace the expensive screen to get a CPU upgrade.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

I can see why they left USB-A out of such a tight package. You can get more than what you want from the USB-C / Thunderbolt ports.

USB-A is ancient tech by comparison, and deservedly needs to get relegated now. It's 30 years old almost. USB-C / Thunderbolt comparatively serve more functions and throughput more than USB-A and are smaller. If they had real estate and space to burn then different matter. But I wouldn't get hung up on that.

If it is a deal-breaker then it's simply the wrong box for them. Gotta move on (at some point) and Apple are famously ruthless, when it comes to doing away what they think are 'old' / non-useful ports on new boxes. On this one I tend to agree.

the dongle that my keyboard and mouse uses is USB A, so is a lot of USB Thumb drives. Even I don't own any, I get people who do and may want to transfer stuff from my machine and vice versa. I am sure there are many other people in the same boat.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Some exceptionally good CPU engineers work at Apple, and they have achieved things that only the Nuva outfit (bought by Qualcomm) can seemingly compete with.

i have watched some videos about the M4 Mini and some of the temperatures it reaches when pushed to the max is a bit worrying.

That's the same argument my friends had when their new iPhone SE 3, and similar came with USB-C to lightning cables. They wanted USB-A as they had chargers. I suggested they should "look forwards" as USB-C is amazing. I've moved my entire fleet over, selling older wall warts to friends or CEX as needed.

The one advantage of USB C is not having to find the correct way to put the plug in. The majority of my stuff is USB A, sure I could buy cables for the external hard drives. that is only three items.

At least the M4 Mini has ports on the front, like the Mac Studio, better than ANY model of Mac Mini before.

True, but I would still need a hub for a SD card reader

Depends if you want the screen, but remember screens last a lot longer than computers these days, this is the reason the 27" iMac is no longer made. The type of people whom bought that, would be annoyed having to replace the expensive screen to get a CPU upgrade.

I presume you mean the technology, not the machine itself. Macs and other computers can keep going for years. A friend still uses a Mac pro, trash can version, but is now looking at a M4, she jjust have to decide which one to get.,

Those USB-A wireless keyboard and mouse dongles probably keep Logitech and the accessories division of Microsoft afloat - if the rate at which my wife loses and breaks hers is any indication. They could just use Bluetooth 5LE, and cut out a whole lot of needles e-waste but proprietary keeps the cash-cows I suppose.

As for thumb drives, it's probably a form factor thing and they are as disposable now (and frankly as useful) as paperclips. Dual or double ended versions - with USB-C and USB-A at either end, work just fine.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

the dongle that my keyboard and mouse uses is USB A, so is a lot of USB Thumb drives. Even I don't own any, I get people who do and may want to transfer stuff from my machine and vice versa. I am sure there are many other people in the same boat.

This was my argument that Apple back in 2016 should have slowly managed the transition from A to C instead of just dropping all A ports on the MacBooks. However its now 8 years later.

There are simple adaptors for small items, but there are a lot of multi-port adaptors. Almost every MacBook user at work has an Anker multi-port adaptor whereas our Windows colleagues have laptops with one A and one C at least. (Although many makes are moving away from this now).

example:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Adapter-Charger-Connector-M...

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

i have watched some videos about the M4 Mini and some of the temperatures it reaches when pushed to the max is a bit worrying.

Temps on Apple silicon are quite different to intel, so I'm not sure there is enough public info yet. We know Apple silicon can and DOES throttle (slow down) when it gets too hot, so I don't think there is anything to worry about.

Not really the AMD Athlon that used to blow apart if the heat sink fell off.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

This was my argument that Apple back in 2016 should have slowly managed the transition from A to C instead of just dropping all A ports on the MacBooks. However its now 8 years later.

There are simple adaptors for small items, but there are a lot of multi-port adaptors. Almost every MacBook user at work has an Anker multi-port adaptor whereas our Windows colleagues have laptops with one A and one C at least. (Although many makes are moving away from this now).

example:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Adapter-Charger-Connector-M...

As you said, should have happened a while back, the longer they pushed USB A the more equipment that come with it.
Those adaptors you linked to have to go the other way around, like

https://amzn.eu/d/ftjj7Z0

I never realised they were that small. That is ok as long as there is room for them on the machine.

If i get more USB thumb drives then I will certainly get them as USB-C

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Temps on Apple silicon are quite different to intel, so I'm not sure there is enough public info yet. We know Apple silicon can and DOES throttle (slow down) when it gets too hot, so I don't think there is anything to worry about.

Not really the AMD Athlon that used to blow apart if the heat sink fell off.

100C while doing some test is a fair bit, certainly in that small space. Sure, it is not going to get to 100C all the time, but

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Those USB-A wireless keyboard and mouse dongles probably keep Logitech and the accessories division of Microsoft afloat - if the rate at which my wife loses and breaks hers is any indication. They could just use Bluetooth 5LE, and cut out a whole lot of needles e-waste but proprietary keeps the cash-cows I suppose.

Not all computers have Bluetooth, my PC don't and when I first set up the Mac mini and tried Bluetooth, it did not work as I needed a keyboard to set Bluetooth up. I also noticed that when I did get Bluetooth working, my keyboard had a delay,

The dongle came with the mouse, there is also security, which may be more useful in an office, I doubt anyone is going to try and hack into my Bluetooth to see what I am typing
My dongles are kept in the machines, apart from when I was mucking around with my Dell thin client thing. Then I took the one out of the PC.

As for thumb drives, it's probably a form factor thing and they are as disposable now (and frankly as useful) as paperclips. Dual or double ended versions - with USB-C and USB-A at either end, work just fine.

Try telling that to someone who comes over to get something and has a USB A thumb drive. These days, if they have fast enough broadband, I give them a shared folder on my NAS and tell them to grab it from there.

It’s not really a big deal. I’ve got an embarrassingly large collection of USB thumb drives from over the years. I think there’s at least 100 in there. I just a use an adapter. They are pennies. Ditto for wired keyboards.

Sadly latency is still an issue on Bluetooth. Which is the reason I still use the Logitech dongles.

Never had any latency issues with Bluetooth keyboards on Macs (Mac keyboards/mice and Logitech ones).

Me neither with BT on Mac's and I've had various mix and match generations over the years.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

It’s not really a big deal. I’ve got an embarrassingly large collection of USB thumb drives from over the years. I think there’s at least 100 in there. I just a use an adapter. They are pennies. Ditto for wired keyboards.

I never realised the adapters were so small, I was expecting a cable with a plug and socket at each end.
My keyboard is not wired, well it is at the moment as It is on charge I have been killing some Zombies and then when I went back to the Mac it died . so getting charged up from the mac hub.,

I really have to sort out my thumb drives, some of them are ancient, a lot of USB 2 ones, which is fine for documents.

Not that any of this makes any difference to me, as I can't see myself going for another Mac to be honest, unless I go for a laptop. But I don;t really like laptops. I may treat myself.

In reply to a post by andynormancx:

Sadly latency is still an issue on Bluetooth. Which is the reason I still use the Logitech dongles.

I had that problem for some reason but then the Mac mini or at least the M1 had a few problems with Bluetooth if I remember correctly

In reply to a post by andynormancx:

Sadly latency is still an issue on Bluetooth.

No problems with latency here either, but the bluetooth daemon has a memory leak which might cause a problem after an extended period (quitting the process and letting it restart will sort it).

The first types were a proper dongle, with a USB female dangling at the end of a short cable. Still have a couple, but the newer, smaller types are now very commonly available for a couple of quid. They all do the job, especially just for thumb drives or keyboard dongles. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

My thumb drives are probably three quarters dead if I'm being honest, most are just freebies, promos, etc that I've gathered over time. Haven't been bothered to sift through them. They are at least in a small tidy gift box. Finding one that still reliably works is often the challenge or finding the 'right' size of drive that can be read by ancient device exhibit X....😂

It is apparent the instant you connect. On Mac and PC.

Some people are lucky enough not to feel low levels of latency, sadly I’m not one of them.

I got a new Logitech MX the other month and I was hopeful that the combination of that that more up to date Bluetooth on Mac and Windows would mean I could feel the latency anymore. But no, I can still feel it.

I should give it another test with Sequoia, I think they were making some Bluetooth tweaks targeting latency.

I don’t have a problem with latency on keyboards, just mice.

Also Apple do something magic with the trackpad, I cannot detect any latency with the trackpad on Bluetooth (or it could be that you are making much smaller physical movements with the trackpad).

But with a mouse I can instantly feel it the first time I make a sweeping side-side movement. That is that treacly laggy feeling. Swap to the dongle and it is instantly gone.

It is possibly made worse by the way I have my mice configured. I have always preferred the Windows feel for mouse movement (a mouse on macOS with the standard settings feels broken to me). That may well make latency more apparent.

I use a logitech mouse an a mac wireless keyboad.

If you have an Apple Silicon Mac then HDMI connectors are absolute sods for creating interference with wifi and BT. Rendered my M2 Pro mini unusable until I sussed the issue. Was an excuse to get a new, USB-C, monitor anyway...

It is bigger deal for me with the Logitech dongle. When my MacBook had a USB-A port the dongle was permanently plugged in, because it is so low profile you can leave it there even when the MacBook is in a case (though I did always put it into my bag with the dongle facing the sky).

Now my MacBook has no USB-A ports I have to use an adapter, it sticks out four times further and you definitely can’t leave it in when travelling.

Which means I’ve gone from never forgetting to take my dongle with me to regularly finding I have my mouse, but the dongle and adapter are sat at home on my desk 😢

So I’m the user bemoaning the loss of USB-A ports. 😉

I wish Logitech would make a USB-C one, but from looking at the sizes of the components involved I fear they’ve avoided it because it would end up sticking out a lot further than the USB-A one.

I don’t use the HDMI port. The two 2.4 GHz only Amazon WiFi switches in office probably don’t help, but I can still feel the BT latency away from those.

Fair enough. How old is your MacBook? They haven't had USB-A ports for years.

I use an MX connected by Bluetooth to an Intel Mini. Absolutely no latency problems.

Current one is a M1 Max 16, previous one was/is a 2015 MacBook Pro 15 (the last one before the TouchBar and soldered in SSDs).

My Studio is connected using HDMI - no problems. Alternative Thunderbolt port to monitor is being used by OWC docking station. It all plays nice together and there's 10Gbit RJ and 25 Gbit MM fibre ethernet in and out of those Mac's, enough WiFi to crisp a peking duck probably too..

I'm genuinely quizzical about this delay issue on Bluetooth spoken about here, Never seen it myself. Nor this memory leaks. My desktop rarely gets powered down, and runs weeks at time between reboots

Near 10 years on the MBP15 is doing OK 👍

Yeah all Apple Silicon and prior Intel-based series (I've lost track now) were sans USB-A as far as I can remember.

I’m not trying to claim that everyone has Bluetooth latency issues. I just know that I do, on my mice and my machines. And that other people, my wife included, can’t feel the latency on the same setup. But different people have different tolerance for stuff like this.

I used to walk into an office and see all these flicking displays that were set at 30 Hz, with the whole room full of people not seeing it. And then sneak round fixing the settings for people.

And when I worked on PC/Mac audio/MIDI software I’d still be trying to remove bits of latency that most people couldn’t tell was there.

It’s a gift, not…

The ones after 2015 were also sans HDMI and microSD, which was one of the reasons I waited so long. Thankfully Apple saw sense and put them back 😉

Oh yes, the "barren port period". Roughly coincided with the TouchBar period as far as I recall? Last of our TouchBar M1's will be eBayed shortly. They were pretty decent.