In reply to a post by lo22:

https://www.currys.co.uk/products/tplink-archer-mr60...
It says it can do 4G+ would that not be an improvement over 4G? Or is 4G LTE the same as 4G+?

LTE is the name of the technology (Long Term Evolution) that the world standardised on and it is a Fourth Generation technology. (The competing technology WiMax didn’t win).

4G+ is a meaningless marketing badge, but it often means the unit supports some features of the second release of LTE technology known as LTE-Advanced. However Advanced covers a LOT of different technologies.

In this case the Currys page says 300 Mbps, which means the unit probably does 2 channel carrier aggregation, each channel has a theoretical max of 150 Mbps, if the network is transmitting 20 MHz for each carrier. So that device is likely a 2014/2015 specification, similar to iPhone 6s or Galaxy S6

If you are using a USB 4G modem, it is likely to be single carrier maximum.

It really depends which mobile network you use, and where in the UK you are, as in rural areas most networks deploy less capacity than in cities (think single lane roads, or 4 lane motorways).

And can you really get a better reception with those small modems, than a big one with antennas? (And I know this question might sound a bit uninformed)

That depends how good the signal strength is indoors. You can fit antenna to the Netgear boxes, and you can get antenna that go outside. They are not cheap.

If you have a 4G phone try a speed test and see what it shows… better if its on the same network.

Or let us know the network and your approximate location in the UK.

In reply to a post by lo22:

So does that hold at all? Could it make sense to get a 5G modem even if there is bad 5G signal in your area, as it will have lower latency and jitter on 4G?

The comment is suggesting the newer hardware is faster even if you don’t have a 5G signal, so it can handle the communications with your computer and the 4G network quicker than the older hardware and reduce your ping.

Its very subjective and hard to predict if this is true, as mobile networks are nothing like fixed line.

Thank you so much for all the info! I really appreciate it.

So what you are saying is that the currys 4G modem is using 2014/2015 technology.

And the one you are recommending (the NETGEAR 4G one) is using newer 2019 technology? And that is essentially why you are recommending it? And it kind of looks like something one would use on the go, not something for using in your home!? haha

I live in Oxford, and I have tested and O2 is the carrier with the best signal at my home.

In reply to a post by lo22:

So what you are saying is that the currys 4G modem is using 2014/2015 technology.

And the one you are recommending (the NETGEAR 4G one) is using newer 2019 technology?

To reduce latency you need to have the most capacity, HOWEVER it is not a guarantee, it is a guess. You could spend a lot of money and have the same experience.

I strongly recommend testing using a recent mobile phone using WiFI hotspot/tethering using various networks on PAYG SIMs before you spend any money.

Each 4G (LTE) device is given a Category, you will find that Currys LTE modem router is likely Category 6, which is why they say "max 300 Mbps" speeds. The iPhone 6s is also Category 6.

A modern Android phone, such as the OnePlus Nord from July 2020 is LTE Category 18, which means a theoretical download speed of 1200 Mbps.

And that is essentially why you are recommending it? And it kind of looks like something one would use on the go, not something for using in your home!? haha

I am suggesting you find a modem with the highest LTE Category that you can find that fits the budget.

I live in Oxford, and I have tested and O2 is the carrier with the best signal at my home.

O2 isn't the best at rolling out capacity (e.g. road lanes); especially in what is a Vodafone controlled area. (west half of England).

This page shows most of the O2 masts in Oxford (found by Android phone users running the Cellmapper app).

From here you can see that most of the cell sites offer transmission Bands of 1, 3, and 20. Occasionally there is a Band 40 transmission. So in some areas to get the best performance you need a modem that can pick up and use 4 transmissions together. This is known as "Carrier Aggregation", and a bit like driving on a 4 lane motorway (e.g. M4 from Reading to London now), which is much faster than the A34 to Oxford which is often congested as only 2 lanes.

A Category 6 device can use 2 transmissions together. A Category 10 or higher can use 4 tranmissions together.

Pretty much all the USB modems I have seen from Vodafone, and Three, including the tiny "mifi" boxes that Three used to give away are Category 4 or lower, so provide connectivity but not speeds or capacity. They were great in 2013 when 4G arrived, and still work but are not the best if you have capacity/speed requirements.

A second hand OnePlus Nord android (1st gen) from a recycling shop might be a useful test device.

So O2 in Oxford, if you are close to one of the masts with Bands 1, 3 and 20, would mean:
Band 1 = 10 MHz
Band 3 = 5 MHz
Band 20 = 10 MHz
So join them together and you get 25 MHz of capacity.

Swapping to Vodafone, whom have used Bands 1, 7, 20, and would mean:
Band 1 = 10 MHz
Band 7 = 20 MHz
Band 20 = 10 MHz
Join them together and you have 40 MHz of capacity, significantly more than O2.

Three has mostly two bands, totalling 20 MHz of capacity.

EE has mostly 20+10 on Band 3, 10+15 on Band 7, and 5 on Band 20 = 60 MHz

So it really depends on what you can receive indoors, as it may not be from a physically closest mast; and each Band (frequency) may not make it indoors.

Testing is the only way to know with PAYG SIMs in a phone.

Once again! Thank you so much for your brilliant explanation!

Well so I have a Samsung Galaxy A52:

https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_a52-10641.php

And I have SIM cards from all the 4 major carriers: O2, Vodafone, EE and 3

So far I have mostly tested latency, as gaming is my major objective. And O2 has the lowest and most stable latency. I have not tested speeds too much, but I will do that over the weekend. And I will let you know how that goes. And do not worry I will test and confer with you guys before I splash the cash on a 4G modem

Also I have been using this site:

https://www.mastdata.com/

Where it shows that in my location O2 has the best signal. It has "good" whereas the others have "low average" and EE only has 2G, haha!

In reply to a post by lo22:

Once again! Thank you so much for your brilliant explanation!

You're welcome.

Well so I have a Samsung Galaxy A52:
https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_a52-10641.php
And I have SIM cards from all the 4 major carriers: O2, Vodafone, EE and 3

Nice one. That A52 is likely LTE Category 15, "theoretical" 800 Mbps max, so should easily test the networks near you.

So far I have mostly tested latency, as gaming is my major objective. And O2 has the lowest and most stable latency. I have not tested speeds too much, but I will do that over the weekend. And I will let you know how that goes. And do not worry I will test and confer with you guys before I splash the cash on a 4G modem

Cool, probably means a) you get best O2 signal indoors, and b) that there are less users in your area on O2 than the others, which gives you more of the capacity.

Phones and modems will show you signal bars, but only for one of the transmissions being picked up. In many cases the best one for indoors (Band 20) is often the worst for capacity, so it can be worth trying tests in a window as well as further into the room.

Also I have been using this site:
https://www.mastdata.com/
Where it shows that in my location O2 has the best signal. It has "good" whereas the others have "low average" and EE only has 2G, haha!

As you can see that site is a bit wrong! It was apparently created from the closure of the Ofcom run Sitefinder which was not kept up to date by the networks, EE's predecessors withdrew voluntarily and never contributed 3G information, never mind 4G or 5G. Is is interesting to see where mast sites might be in your road/area, but just be aware the data is quite likely 10 years or more out of date.

Lots of mast sites have changed in the last 5 years with operators working together (e.g. O2 & Voda sharing mast locations); and closing duplicate sites. This has helped them reduce costs, instead of having two poles on the side of the road, they can have one pole, and two large cabinets (one per network operator).

You are better off looking at crowd sourced sites such as Cellmapper, or just looking for strange looking items in the roads around you. As you have Android you can run Cellmapper itself (free app, you don't need to create an account) on your phone.

The streetworks poles are pretty obvious, but cell sites can be hidden on edges of buildings, and in London O2 are using micro cells which are often mounted on lamp posts and might even look like small WiFi boxes!

So I just have a look at cellmapper and using Google Maps for distance measuring. I can see that I am the following:

700 metres from a tower with one dot with band 1, 3, 20 and one dot with band 40 (O2)
850 metres away from one tower with one dot with band 1, 20 and one dot with band 40 (O2)
930 metres from a tower with one dot with band 1, 3, 20 (O2)
930 metres from a tower with one dot with band 1, 3, 20 and one dot with band 20, 40 (O2)
So for two of the locations there are two dots on cell mapper, I hope this makes sense?


And for Vodafone it is the same just only one dot on each of these 3 locations with band 1, 7, 20. Or the last one list only has band 1, 20 for Vodafone.

So can this explain the better signal from O2? Or is it just because the network is not as busy?

And what is an ideal distance to a mast in terms of signal? Probably the closer the better. But is there a threshold where the quality really drops?

In reply to a post by lo22:

700 metres from a tower with one dot with band 1, 3, 20 and one dot with band 40 (O2)
850 metres away from one tower with one dot with band 1, 20 and one dot with band 40 (O2)
930 metres from a tower with one dot with band 1, 3, 20 (O2)
930 metres from a tower with one dot with band 1, 3, 20 and one dot with band 20, 40 (O2)
So for two of the locations there are two dots on cell mapper, I hope this makes sense?

Thanks useful info. The second dot is probably because O2 has done some recent work to add Band 40 (a useful increase in capacity, at 2300 MHz) and the cellmapper site hasn't yet worked out if they are one mast with all 4 transmissions, or two masts close together.

And for Vodafone it is the same just only one dot on each of these 3 locations with band 1, 7, 20. Or the last one list only has band 1, 20 for Vodafone.

So can this explain the better signal from O2? Or is it just because the network is not as busy?

Depends what you mean by "better" ? More bars on the screen, or higher speeds? The first could be down to building construction and whatever is between you and the mast. Speeds can be down to number of users as well as how much capacity is there in the first place.

And what is an ideal distance to a mast in terms of signal? Probably the closer the better. But is there a threshold where the quality really drops?

Its not that simple, the phone and any modem will jump around masts as needed (and directed by the masts) if they can pick up lots of them. This is seriously complicated at this point, and I don't understand it, there are some 1,500 page books on how LTE works available for lots of money

What you want is to pick up as many bands as possible with good signal quality, apps such as cellmapper, and nPerf, or Net Monitor are apps on the Play Store that can show more details about the signals you are picking up in your home.

Just a point about Cellmapper, which I agree is great.

I find it and at least one other similar does not completely stop running after I swipe it off the screen. It continues to do its job and uses up considerable battery reserves. I haven't found a way to close it down other than possibly rebooting the phone. I say possibly because to make sure I don't reboot. I turn the phone off then back on after half a minute or so.

In reply to a post by pluralist:

I haven't found a way to close it down other than possibly rebooting the phone.

That is by design. You need to tap the menu and choose Exit, and not just swipe it off. If you do just swipe you will see the icon in the status bar remains

With it running (foreground or background) you can start and stop data collection using the record button. You can also choose to have "live upload" on or off, this uploads point collected to the website immediately, or only when you use the upload button. These features make it possible to use the app with a PAYG SIM that has no credit, as you can upload data when back on WiFi.

Edited by jchamier (Sun 14-Aug-22 09:56:38)