first they work, now they don't ( homeplugs)

i going to scream. I have had some homeplugs now for nearly 18 months, they connect my computer upstairs to my router downstairs. they been working fine no problem at all, but i have been having a few speed problems with my broadband supplier, which got sorted today.

Well for some reason my computer up here connected to the home plugs still showed a slow speed of under a megabit. I got the laptop up here and connected it to the home plugs and again a slow speed, wi-fi was fine.

Took laptop downstairs and the home plug and speed was fine. so it seems for some reason something have happened to stop my homeplugs working at a decent speed from the upper floor of the house to the lower floor.

Why would that happen all of a sudden? using wi-fi on the computer upstairs, but I don't like the idea much. but nice to get nearly 12 megabits now.

Have you introduced anything electrical recently that could be introducing noise onto the mains ring (particularly think about wall-wart type power supplies, low voltage lighting)?

Are your up and downstairs sockets on separate fuseways?

Edited by deleted (Sat 22-Sep-12 01:02:55)

In reply to a post by GeeTee:

Have you introduced anything electrical recently that could be introducing noise onto the mains ring (particularly think about wall-wart type power supplies, low voltage lighting)?

Are your up and downstairs sockets on separate fuseways?

I don't think have added anything, no I am pretty sure I have not. i just wondering now if these plugs have been like it for a while but never noticed as i never had anything fast enough to make use of them apart from the NAS.

What do you mean by separate fuseways? There is a separate trip switch for upstairs and downstairs sockets.

the problem now is I need to re-sort out my network out if I have to stay wireless up here and need to move my NAS back downstairs and get a faster network adaptor

I wonder if a more modern homeplug would work, but it is a risk if it don't. I don't like wi-fi.

I've had a few homeplugs fade out and die. Running a wire starts to become attractive.

should have got devolo, not cheap ones like tp-link!

In reply to a post by yarwell:

I've had a few homeplugs fade out and die. Running a wire starts to become attractive.

but if the home plugs was at fault, then surly they would not work on the same floor?

running a wire would be fine i would prefer, but it would have to be one hell of a long wire.

Edited by zyborg47 (Sat 22-Sep-12 11:39:54)

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

should have got devolo, not cheap ones like tp-link!

Who said I had Tp-link ones? I don't remember saying a make.

As for TP-link products, my TP-link router is great, my mates TP-link ADSl router also works fine.

My homeplugs are Netricity and i am not sure if more expensive homeplugs, not that these was cheap to be honest will make any difference at all.

Just wondering why you don't like wifi.

On 150Mbps you can easily get 60+ Mbps throughput if using the right wifi adapter

& on 300Mbps wifi you can pull over 100Mbps quite easily
Then 5ghz gives even bigger benefits.

My homeplugs give slower actual throughput than my wifi & wifi works out much cheaper I find overall.

As for the homeplugs I doubt replacing them will make a huge difference given that they work fine both downstairs. It's suggesting a home wiring issue / interference from something other than a homeplug broken / faulty.

Ok my home plugs are not the fastest around they are are 85Megabits, but that is about 40Megabits one way as i know that is how they they work.
i found the software for them and installed it, i had to run it in vista compatibility mode

Now the software say when I use the either the set of sockets on fitted onto the walls at either side of my computer desk I am getting about 13Megabits connection.

I was able to plug the home plug into the socket on the top of the stairs and that says 26Megabits.

i thought ok, lets try the socket in this room that is on the other side of the wall that the one on the stairs is on. that also comes around 26 megabits.

i can get pretty close to what the broadband speed should be using either of those sockets.


so I presume that for some reason the two sets of sockets on either side of where my computer desk is have some sort of problem.

the one on the other wall that gives me 26megabits is fine, I can find a longer ethernet cable for that. but I am wondering if a 85Megabit power plug is not enough for a 10 megabit internet connection as daft as it sounds.

I wonder if getting faster plugs will give me more headroom.

Just some thoughts.

right i must get ready for work.

I hope you understand that lot, if you did then you are better than me

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Just wondering why you don't like wifi.

Security is the main problem and also reliability

On 150Mbps you can easily get 60+ Mbps throughput if using the right wifi adapter

& on 300Mbps wifi you can pull over 100Mbps quite easily
Then 5ghz gives even bigger benefits.

My homeplugs give slower actual throughput than my wifi & wifi works out much cheaper I find overall.

You could be right, my router is up to 300Mb/s on wi-fi, if I got a adaptor to match it, it should in theory be faster than the homeplugs.

My problem is my NAS, it have a one gigabit ethernet, just like my computer and it is connected via a one gigabit switch. that in turns connect to my homeplugs. this means i can get full speed from the NAS tot he computer and still acess it, but at a lower speed from the PS3 and laptop.

Just wondering how I could do that via wireless,



As for the homeplugs I doubt replacing them will make a huge difference given that they work fine both downstairs. It's suggesting a home wiring issue / interference from something other than a homeplug broken / faulty.


I got my doubts as well, apart from the fact more modern ones may be able to cope better with what ever is causing mine to fail. but as you said price is the problem, I can pick up a USB adaptor for around a tenner that will work with my router, made by the same manufacture as my router. the only thing I must make sure is the thing works with linux and also 64bit windows 7
.

NAS wise just plug that in via the main wireless router & the wifi devices should pick it up as if it were wired

Wifi speeds drop off fairly quickly through walls etc thats the only major downside

Using WPA2 AES & a random long password security shouldn't really be an issue

Edited by ukhardy07 (Sun 23-Sep-12 10:38:41)

but if the home plugs was at fault, then surly they would not work on the same floor?

They're distance dependent - the RF signals they put out are attenuated and lost in the mains wiring so something that works in the next room may not work in the garage etc.

If they "fade" rather than "fail" the range might decline

Do you have any surge protection connected at or near the sockets that provide poor performance over Homeplugs ?
Surge protection normally uses devices called Varistors which have a high self capacitance. This causes the radio frequency Homeplug signals to be shunted away. Also many PC and peripherals power supplies use Varistors to protect against mains spikes.
I have a remote NAS connected to my PC via Homeplugs and I find that if I use the sockets that my PC is connected to I get a very poor throughput.
The simple solution is to run a ethernet cable to a nearby socket that does not have a surge protector plugged into the other gang.
RF is funny stuff and just a few metres can make all the difference between good and poor performance.

Edited by deleted (Sun 23-Sep-12 12:15:38)

In reply to a post by yarwell:

[ They're distance dependent - the RF signals they put out are attenuated and lost in the mains wiring so something that works in the next room may not work in the garage etc.

[/quote]

that is true.

If they "fade" rather than "fail" the range might decline

but they still work between floors at a decent speed if I use the socket on the landing or the one on the other side of the room. Very strange.

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

NAS wise just plug that in via the main wireless router & the wifi devices should pick it up as if it were wired

i know that and that is how i had things before I decided to use a switch and move the NAs up here.
the problem is if I put the NAS on the router directly and use wi-fi or home plugs for that matter I would lose the 1Gb connection speed I get over Ethernet.

Wifi speeds drop off fairly quickly through walls etc thats the only major downside

That is the problem, but wireless N should solve that to a certain extent and the inside walls of this house are pretty thin.

Using WPA2 AES & a random long password security shouldn't really be an issue

Just a pain to input into some devices like Ps3, wii and mobile phone, saying that my wii and PS3 is wired as the router is under the TV.

In reply to a post by towdgeezer:

Do you have any surge protection connected at or near the sockets that provide poor performance over Homeplugs ?
Surge protection normally uses devices called Varistors which have a high self capacitance. This causes the radio frequency Homeplug signals to be shunted away. Also many PC and peripherals power supplies use Varistors to protect against mains spikes.
I have a remote NAS connected to my PC via Homeplugs and I find that if I use the sockets that my PC is connected to I get a very poor throughput.
The simple solution is to run a ethernet cable to a nearby socket that does not have a surge protector plugged into the other gang.
RF is funny stuff and just a few metres can make all the difference between good and poor performance.

I think you meant to reply to me, as i am having the problems.

i know not to run them through surge protection units and the only uses I have got have the TV, wii, Ps3 and also the router, my broadband module that is on the roof and my voip and phone plugged into.
the homeplug is plugged into a normal socket on the wall behind the TV.
I have got a surge protection unit up here as well, which the printer, scanner and a few bits are plugged into, the computer and monitor is plugged into a UPS
again the home plug is plugged into a normal wall socket.

you are right about other power supplies using Varistors, but surly they can't cause a problem outside the units?

i would love to be able to run a long ethernet cable directly from this computer to the router, but that is difficult. as it would mean, going under the floor boards of the landing and my bedroom and then a hole in the ceiling to go down to the living room.

i was thinking of going up, through the loft, then across the loft and then down into the bedroom and then down again to the living room, but that would be one hell of a long cable.

i may cope with what I have at the moment and maybe when I have my next week off i will look at the long Ethernet side as I got no carpet on the landing and the bedroom carpet is not stuck down.

i don't know.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

...i would love to be able to run a long ethernet cable directly from this computer to the router, but that is difficult. as it would mean, going under the floor boards of the landing and my bedroom and then a hole in the ceiling to go down to the living room.

...i may cope with what I have at the moment and maybe when I have my next week off i will look at the long Ethernet side as I got no carpet on the landing and the bedroom carpet is not stuck down.

That would certainly be my preference, I did a similar thing a few years ago

In reply to a post by GeeTee:

Have you introduced anything electrical recently that could be introducing noise onto the mains ring (particularly think about wall-wart type power supplies, low voltage lighting)?

It would be interesting to find out if it was something like this which would offer a deterrent solution to those suffering interference from these allegedly illegal radio devices.

In reply to a post by gomezz:

In reply to a post by GeeTee:

Have you introduced anything electrical recently that could be introducing noise onto the mains ring (particularly think about wall-wart type power supplies, low voltage lighting)?

It would be interesting to find out if it was something like this which would offer a deterrent solution to those suffering interference from these allegedly illegal radio devices.

What is illegal?

the only people who seems to have interference from homeplugs are Radio hams, if that is what you are on about then to be honest after the hassle we had with one of them a few years back I not that bothered about them.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

That would certainly be my preference, I did a similar thing a few years ago

i will have to have a look to see how easy it would be.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

...i will have to have a look to see how easy it would be.

It may not be easy but it will probably be worth it

Once the cat5 is in place it gives one several different options for connecting up routers, modems, computers and phones.

I'm currently using it for a gigabit LAN from the router/switch and also ran a telephone extension along side it into the same upstairs room from the NTE5 (filtered voice from the back of filtered faceplate) both located in the same downstairs room - I left adequate spare cable at the ends though in case I want to change the setup in the future, e.g. use the cat5 for unfiltered adsl from the NTE5 filtered faceplate (rj11)for possibly using the router upstairs and filtered voice would still be available both downstairs and upstairs without additional filters from the front and back of the filtered faceplate.

right, after doing some speed tests with a bit of software called lan speedtest or something like that, I have come to the conclusion that my homeplugs have a problem from up stairs to downstairs.

With the wireless connection, bearing in mind that the dongle is only a 54G, i get about 15Mb/s, with the plugs it is around 5, so a bit of a difference.

I have ordered as a temp measure a Tp-link high gain USB adaptor 300Mb/s.

i will see how that works. do anyone know why networks only seem to use half of the available bandwidth?

The one problem is how to get acesss to my NAS at a decent speed to my main computer. If I leave it upstairs, then I got no way to connect it to the Ps3.


it is getting old to be honest and while the Ethernet connection is a gigabit, doing some speed trials with it, I find that it come no where near that speed.
i don't really know if I need the NAs available for the PS3 to be honest, I have not used it with the Ps3 since I got a larger drive for the PS3 to hold all my music and pictures on the PS3.


i will see how it all works out, the ethernet cable run is a bit too much at the moment, I will have to look at that next year before I get some new carpets for upstairs,.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

.With the wireless connection, bearing in mind that the dongle is only a 54G, i get about 15Mb/s, with the plugs it is around 5, so a bit of a difference.

I have ordered as a temp measure a Tp-link high gain USB adaptor 300Mb/s.

i will see how that works. do anyone know why networks only seem to use half of the available bandwidth?

I've played around with a WLAN both with "g" and "n" but I have never really had satisfactory results. Best I can do with a "g" 54Mbps connection is about 25Mbps on file transfers over the WLAN, although internet throughput is ~11Mbps which is about the same as over ethernet so it's OK for that purpose.

Gigabit ethernet or even 100Mbps ethernet is so much better when working over the LAN - with "g" I even have problems with playing 17Mbps VBR videos over the WLAN since those videos also have overheads.

Hopefully you will be able to improve your WLAN performance with the 300Mbps USB adaptor...

Best of luck

25Mbps on G is pretty good actually. Mostly they run around 22Mbps at best.

In reply to a post by ian72:

25Mbps on G is pretty good actually. Mostly they run around 22Mbps at best.

Actually you are probably right - I will have to check again later with a file transfer - but the wireless signal only has to pass through plaster board and floor boards, above the router, to reach a laptop normally used in an upstairs room

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

it is getting old to be honest and while the Ethernet connection is a gigabit, doing some speed trials with it, I find that it come no where near that speed.

Gigabit ethernet can be fast enough for the limiting factor to become disk access (more so for older disks), which can therefore show up if copying or streaming a large file (as files small enough to be in a disk cache are less affected by this).

May also depend on the quality of the network card and processor in the NAS.

On some operating systems it is practical to eliminate disk access from tests by copying files between ramfs (or tmpfs), or otherwise using something like iperf.

In reply to a post by prlzx:

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

it is getting old to be honest and while the Ethernet connection is a gigabit, doing some speed trials with it, I find that it come no where near that speed.

Gigabit ethernet can be fast enough for the limiting factor to become disk access (more so for older disks), which can therefore show up if copying or streaming a large file (as files small enough to be in a disk cache are less affected by this).

May also depend on the quality of the network card and processor in the NAS.

On some operating systems it is practical to eliminate disk access from tests by copying files between ramfs (or tmpfs), or otherwise using something like iperf.

Some of the files on my NAS are pretty large. the only linux machine i got is my laptop, i could do some tests using that. As i said i did try lan speedtest on the windows machine and that gave me a good estimate

the 300Mb/s wi-fi adaptor is at the sorting office, it came Thursday, but I not been able to get it. I will pop down soon to get it and try that.

the NAS at the moment is connected directly to the router, so it is pretty slow through the Wi-fi at the moment. I know 300Mb/s is nowhere near the speed of my ethernet, I will just have to cope until I can do something better.