New router and problems with wifi printing

Hello, I'm new here.

I have an annoying technical problem with the router. What is blocking printing through the wifi connection?

My ISP is EE. I have just upgraded to fibre broadband and I now use a Brightbox router. Connection to the internet is fine, both through wifi and ethernet.

Connected to the router by ethernet is a TP-link powerline with wifi extender for better wifi access upstairs. The wifi extender is its own access point and not a repeater.

I have two wired printers on the home network. Before the upgrade I could print to them without problems through the previous router, both through ethernet and wifi. Now, I can print to them through the Brightbox ethernet lan but not through wifi. I can also print to them if I connect the laptop to the wifi on the TP-link powerline extender (which connects to the Brightbox through ethernet).

I have tried uninstalling the printer drivers, but when reinstalling them the software cannot detect the printers if I am using the Brightbox wifi, only if I use the ethernet or the powerline wifi.

I cannot see any settings in the Brightbox which might prevent printing through wifi. The printers are set to static IPs. They show up in the list of connected devices in the Brightbox. I have tried turning WPA off.

I expect this problem will occur with others who upgrade to the Brightbox.

So, any help to answer the question would be much appreciated.

Happy Christmas

In reply to a post by cutehenry:

The printers are set to static IPs. They show up in the list of connected devices in the Brightbox.

Do they show up as Reserved IPs in the DHCP section?

If not, there may be some clash. Can you let them get their IPs auto and then Reserve them?

can you ping their IPs or access their web GUI (if applicable) - ie is their general connectivity working

The Brightbox may be using "wireless isolation" to keep the LAN safe from the wifi, can you find a setting like that ?

Thanks for the suggestion. I have been through all the settings in the Brightbox and I have seen nothing like this.

Also, no, I cannot ping or access the IP for the printer. And I cannot access any other computer on the network. Which suggests there is something on the wireless laptop wrong with home network access.

Edited by deleted (Wed 19-Dec-12 15:20:04)

if it won't ping it isn't a printer / file sharing problem, it's the TCP/IP connectivity.

What's the IP address of the laptop, router and printer ?

Thanks for the suggestion. The router sees the printers and allocated IPs to them - I then reserved those IPs for them so they won't change in future. Actually, I think the new router picked up the IPs from the printers as I seem to remember they have the same IPs as with the previous router.

The wireless laptop when connected by wifi directly to the Brightbox is 192.168.0.102

The wireless laptop when connected to the second wifi access point which connects to the Brightbox through the powerline is 192.168.0.106

The router is 192.168.0.1.1

The printers are 192.168.0.104 and 150

so you can ping 192.168.0.1 but not 192.168.0.104 ?

You can turn the firewall off - might give you a clue if it's responsible
http://help.orange.co.uk/orangeuk/support/personal/6...

is it possible the bright box just doesnt like the name of the printer?

bit like the problems of old with belkin and anything that ran android?

Could it be to do with the Domain Name under DHCP? I have mine = the Workgroup name of the PCs.

Thanks. I got the IPs wrong - they are all 192.168.1. x

I can ping the router on 192.168.1.1 but I cannot ping the printer or other devices on 192.168.1.104 / 150 etc.

I have tried disabling the firewall in the router without success.

Thanks. I have the laptops all joined to Workgroup.

You mean it worked or what? I was talking about the router.

I haven't got it working yet.

I'm sorry, I don't understand your question. I have no setting to do with domain in the router. As I understand it, the various PCs on my network are joined to a 'home network' called 'workgroup'. Is that what you meant? They are not on a 'domain'. Thanks.

In reply to a post by cutehenry:

I have no setting to do with domain in the router.

You have here:

DHCP
You can enable DHCP to dynamically allocate IP addresses to your client PCs, or configure filtering functions based on specific clients or protocols. The router must have an IP address for the local network.

VLAN Interface Default
GatewayGateway Address 192.168. 1. 1
IP Subnet Mask 255.255.255. 0

DHCP Settings
DHCP Server Enable
Lease Time Forever
Start IP 192.168. 1. a
End IP 192.168. 1. z

Domain Name MyGroup

Address Reservation
IP Address Device Name MAC Address Configure
no dhcp client ip address is reserved

Hi. I entered WORKGROUP as the domain name in the router as you suggested. The settings for DHCP are as you suggest.

Using the wifi to the Brightbox I can access the internet and ping the router on 192.168.1.1 but I still cannot ping the printer on 192.168.1.104 or access the printer

Did that DHCP page show the printers as Reserved IPs or did it say, as mine, "no dhcp client ip address is reserved"?

In reply to a post by cutehenry:

The wireless laptop when connected by wifi directly to the Brightbox is 192.168.0.102

The wireless laptop when connected to the second wifi access point which connects to the Brightbox through the powerline is 192.168.0.106

The router is 192.168.0.1

The printers are 192.168.0.104 and 150

Have you set the Bright Box router DHCP server range?
Example...

Set Bright Box router DHCP server range

DHCP Server. Enable
Lease Time. Forever
Start IP. 192.168.0.12
End IP. 192.168.0.101
Domain Name. Default

This will give from 192.168.0.2 to 192.168.0.11 = 10 static IP addresses
And from 192.168.0.102 to 192.168.0.255 = 153 static IP addresses.

you can use any of the 163 static IP addresses for devices on the LAN (Local Area Network) and the Static addresses will not change.

The router is 192.168.0.1
The laptop is 192.168.0.102
The inkjet printer 192.168.0.104
The laser printer 192.168.0.150
---------------------
For the static IP addresses, do not use any in the Bright Box router DHCP server range also do not reserve any DHCP IP addresses.

Edited by deleted (Thu 20-Dec-12 01:34:39)

In reply to a post by E7er:

For the static IP addresses, do not use any in the Bright Box router DHCP server range also do not reserve any DHCP IP addresses.

Why not? That's what the Reserved IPs are there for. Why make it more convoluted?

Hi, thanks for your time and questions.

The printers show as reserved.I reserved them manually.

I can print if I am connected to the Brightbox router by ethernet but not by wifi. This suggests the (ethernet LAN) DHCP and routing is OK.

I can access the internet (but not the printers) if I am connected to the Brightbox router by wifi . This confirms at least part of the wifi link is OK.

I can print if I am connected to a second separate wifi access point upstairs that is connected to the router by powerline/ethernet.

It raises the question whether the ethernet and wifi routing in the Brightbox work in different ways.

Sounds like you have wireless isolation turned on.

Maybe ... I know that reserved or fixed IPs should be "seen" when the DHCP server allocates a new IP but problems can and do occur. With plenty of address availabe for a home network it is nice to have a plan for which IPs are used in which context and I have often found that it is better to have the reserved or fixed IPs outside the allocatable range.

For example:

Router xxx.xxx.xxx.8

DHCP range: xxx.xxx.xxx.64 to xxx.xxx.xxx.191

Then reserve or fix IPs in the xxx.xxx.xxx.192 to xxx.xxx.xxx.240 for printers, TVs, alarms &c
and use xxx.xxx.xxx.16 to xxx.xxx.xxx.63 for devices such as switches, additional WAPs.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Sounds like you have wireless isolation turned on.

Do you know where in the router this gets turned on and off? I have not seen such an option.

Also, why does the router allow wifi access to the internet but not to the printers? Wouldn't isolation block both?

Thanks.

You said earlier:

In reply to a post by cutehenry:

The printers are set to static IPs.

Does this mean that you set them static at the printers or are you just meaning that you just reserved them at the router after its DHCP allocated IPs for them?

In reply to a post by cutehenry:

I have not seen such an option.

There isn't one.

Yes, either strategy will work. As long as you just use the router to do all IP allocation, and not the individual devices, it is a centralised and cleaner solution.

Not always possible though. Alarm systems often need the IP address hard coding and it is not an easy job to change it (as i know), similarly with using 2wire2700s as WAPs - they need to have their address defined internally and that is why I allow the non allocatable ranges where I can either tell the DHCP server to allocate a specific reserved address or have it fixed in the device.

OK, where you can't, you can't, but in general with most common devices you can.

It's definitely of benefit to have fixed IP addresses outside of the DHCP range that can be allocated by the router. I know the HH3 functions better when this is done.

In my case the numbers chosen mean something too so it is easy to remember.

240 - 24 port switch
216 - a small remote switch in the shed which has Gbit back to the house.
222 - second port on the unlocked modem

I have just got a BH3 ... but it will not be any good as it lacks the VOIP ports! I'll try it as a WAP and see how it compares to the 2700 - yes it has 802.11n but do I need that? probably not. I need range/power not speed.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by E7er:

For the static IP addresses, do not use any in the Bright Box router DHCP server range also do not reserve any DHCP IP addresses.

Why not? That's what the Reserved IPs are there for. Why make it more convoluted?

It�s for a reserved DHCP server address�

DHCP client ip address is reserved
DHCP client list
Edit reserved DHCP

A dhcp address is not a static IP address you are mixing DHCP reserved addresses with static IP addresses.

In reply to a post by cutehenry:

Connected to the router by ethernet is a TP-link powerline with wifi extender for better wifi access upstairs. The wifi extender is its own access point and not a repeater.

In reply to a post by cutehenry:

The wireless laptop when connected by wifi directly to the Brightbox is 192.168.0.102

The wireless laptop when connected to the second wifi access point which connects to the Brightbox through the powerline is 192.168.0.106

The router is 192.168.0.1.1

The printers are 192.168.0.104 and 150

How do you have the TP-Link powerline wifi extender wireless access point configured?

I would think it should be something like�

IP address 192.168.0.2 or 106 <- TP-Link wifi extender wireless access point.
Subnet mask 255.255.255.0
Default gateway 192.168.0.1

Preferred DNS server 193.36.79.101
Alternate DNS server 193.36.79.100

Ugh!

In reply to a post by E7er:

A dhcp address is not a static IP address you are mixing DHCP reserved addresses with static IP addresses.

Don't think so! Explain your reasoning! Don't understand your terse non-sentences.

A Reserved DHCP address is static; it never moves; it always has the same numbers. What more do you want? Are you restricting the meaning of "Static IP" to one only set in device itself? Then that is just semantics.

why does the router allow wifi access to the internet but not to the printers? Wouldn't isolation block both?

No, the point is to allow both LAN and WLAN access to the internet but deny the WLAN access to the LAN

Would it deny the LAN access to the WLAN?

it has iptables so it can do anything - I don't know what it actually does as I don't have access to one

I've seen options where LAN clients get the same protection from WLAN as from WAN, ie the wireless is "untrusted" - I suspect LAN to WAN traffic is allowed but not vice versa.

I found one other relevant posting via Google "I'm wondering if you've encountered the odd behaviour I see, where the BB fails to bridge wifi to wires network requests - Specifically ICMP ping (annoying) and seemingly CUPS printing (really annoying). I had hoped to find a setting somewhere in the UI but despite disabling the 'block ICMP from the outside' "feature" it still seems to be actively policing traffic bridging my local LAN/Wifi worlds."

In reply to a post by yarwell:

I've seen options where LAN clients get the same protection from WLAN as from WAN, ie the wireless is "untrusted" - I suspect LAN to WAN traffic is allowed but not vice versa.

Your point about isolation got me looking again at the Brightbox configuration pages. In their advanced page for Channel and SSID there are settings for "VLAN binding". The help file says this:

"Multiple SSID

The router supports up to 3 wireless network names (SSIDs). Typically you may like to use multiple SSIDs for one of the purposes below:

SSID1 is for your personal use, SSID2 is for family members and SSID3 is for guest access
SSID1 is for WPA security using default router settings and SSID2 is for older wireless adaptors that need to use WEP
In conjunction with VLAN binding you can restrict access to your home network or use bandwidth control to restrict the amount of data a guest is allowed to use (see below).

VLAN Binding

VLAN binding gives you the ability to share your internet connection with friends or family, while allowing you to keep computers or storage devices on a separate home network.

A typical example would be to use SSID1 for your personal use, and then provide the wireless settings for SSID2 to a guest. By choosing VLAN2 for SSID2, the guest user would be on a separate internal network meaning that any shared computers or devices on your home network would not be visible."

Given your knowledge about isolation, does this suggest any further thoughts?

Thanks.

Are all your wireless devices using the same SSID?
Have you got SSID broadcast enabled?
What is your DHCP address range?
What is your printers IP address?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

1 Are all your wireless devices using the same SSID?
2 Have you got SSID broadcast enabled?
3 What is your DHCP address range?
4 What is your printers IP address?

1 Yes
2 Yes
3 192.168.1.10-100
4 192.168.1.104 and 192.168.1.150, both reserved

Thanks.

In reply to a post by cutehenry:

4 192.168.1.104 and 192.168.1.150, both reserved

Have you got 2 printers? Which one can't you print to?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by cutehenry:

4 192.168.1.104 and 192.168.1.150, both reserved

Have you got 2 printers? Which one can't you print to?

I have two printers. I can print to them if connect to the router through the ethernet lan but I cannot print to either of them if I connect to the router through the wifi.

The two printers are both wired to the lan.

When I am on the ethernet lan, I can scan the network using 'Netscan' and I see the printers. I have full access to them. When I am using the wifi I cannot see them.

So, something in the router wifi is not allowing me to see/use the home network.

Thanks,

So you can't see the LAN at all from wifi?
Are you using the VLAN that "is for your personal use"? i.e. SSID1 and VLAN1?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Are you using the VLAN that "is for your personal use"?

That was just a typical example. Most Brightbox owners will just be using SSID1 which defaults to VLAN1 for all their wireless.

Can most Brightbox users see their lan from their wifi?

I don't know. That's why I asked the "Would it deny the LAN access to the WLAN?" Q.

My XP Etherneted Desktop (LAN) can see my Vista Wireless Laptop (WLAN) but not vice versa.

However I don't put that down to the BrightBox as it is exactly the same with my Netgear.

It did work once when I first set it up. I put it down to an XP/Vista incompatibility.

It did work once when I first set it up. I put it down to an XP/Vista incompatibility

Does ping work bidirectionally, ie is the problem you have at the file/printer sharing level rather than the tcp/ip level ?

Thanks to everyone who contributed. I don't have an answer but I know from experience that one can spend hours 'wasting' time on such problems - it is fun (for me) to spend time on logical analysis and learning, but there are other interesting things to do, like Christmas.

I have two options for action:

1) Try the second Brightbox which the ISP sent me for some reason - maybe it is programmed to handle wifi/lan connections differently.

2) Turn off the Brightbox wifi, wire in a spare router and configure it as an access point.

If you have any other suggestions, please let me know.

I am away until after the new year, so I will try these when I get back.

In the meantime, many thanks. Enjoy the holidays!

I'll try and get my hands on one, there's instructions on the net how to get access to the operating system on them and we should be able to see what the firewall is up to from there.

Yes, it pings both ways.

Must revisit Vista's Firewall (NIS); I remember I had trouble setting that up initially when I 1st got it working. At the mo' I do everything inter-networking from the XP end.

I notice from Vista's Network Map that the route to the wired XP goes thro' a "Switch" as well as the router. When I put a wireless adapter on the XP then the route from Vista to the XP on the WLAN only goes via the router. I wonder if that has anything to do with OP's issue?

could be, if the Wireless and Wired are bridged then full communication is always available, if the interfaces are kept separate and handled by the router than rules can interfere.

Two wired PCs would normally communicate via the 4-port switch on a typical router without bothering the router itself.

I solved my XP/Vista networking problem

From an idea I had for another Windows thread here, I changed my Win user name on XP back to the same as Vista. Now Vista can see XP over network & v.v.

I think I once changed it to be diff for some reason I've yet to rediscover.

I thought Vista networking had a setting "Password Protection Sharing" OFF to allow diff user names. I had it OFF all the time but not until I changed the names to be the same did it work .

I've seen threads where having a password on the Guest account breaks the password protection "off" feature, and also where something else was preventing it from working...

"I figured
that there might be a security setting that I had set incorrectly, so I went
into "Administrative Tools\Local Policies\Security Options" and went down
the list and set everything to its default setting. I did the same thing
with "User Rights Assignment". I then went to the "Network and Sharing"
center and it worked. "

In reply to a post by cutehenry:

Thanks to everyone who contributed. I don't have an answer but I know from experience that one can spend hou
I have two options for action:
rs 'wasting' time on such problems - it is fun (for me) to spend time on logical analysis and learning, but there are other interesting things to do, like Christmas.

Hi did you have any luck getting this configured to work wirelessly in the end?

In reply to a post by techlad:

In reply to a post by cutehenry:

Hi did you have any luck getting this configured to work wirelessly in the end?

No, sorry. I spoke with EE (ex-Orange) who will talk with the person who wrote the firmware for the router. If he writes a solution, my Brightbox firmware will automatically be upgraded. (Not sure how I will know though.)

I 'solved' the problem by disabling the wifi on the Brightbox, plugging the old router into the Brightbox, and configuring it as a wifi access point. It wastes some electricity and adds to the mess of cables, but it works.