Internet for a Village Hall

I have been tasked with organising the relocation of the NTE5 and getting internet into three rooms, one of which is the manager's office. The other two rooms to have Wi-Fi provided to users on a f.o.c. guest basis.

Currently the NTE5 is in the totally wrong location, near the main door, the manager's office is on the first floor. The building is from the late 1800s and the cordless phone plugged into the NTE5 can be a challenge. Similarly, our internet connection is provided f.o.c. by the business user of a spare first floor room. However, due to the thick stone walls, the only way we have a reliable Wi-Fi connection in the manager's office, is to use a directional Wi-Fi aerial.

My initial thoughts are that the other two room, both on the ground floor will need Wireless Access Points, likely POE.

Our telephone supplier is BT and looking at BT Business (I am not sure whether our existing telephone account is down as Residential or Business. The Bills supplied are not VAT Invoices and the Village Hall name is not shown on them. But, we appear as a Business online in the BT Book.) I note that the BT hub has provision for Guest Wi-Fi, would Wireless Access Points plugged into that Hub also have that Guest facility? I ask this because as powerful as BT claim their Hub is, the thick stone walls are a problem.

What other ways, say if the BT Hub Guest Wi-Fi is not extendable via CAT5 into the Hub from a WAP, can Guest Wi-Fi be implemented?

I am not against using other internet providers, but was hoping that BT might move the NTE5 by running a new drop wire.

Grateful for any comments, suggestions, ideas etc.

Many thanks!

Clive

Of course the NTE can be shifted - ring up and order it - but there will be a charge.

If keeping the existing phone number isn't an issue then getting a new line + broadband is often bizarrely less expensive than having the existing NTE relocated.

As you mention the BT Hub are you looking at your own broadband to replace the current f.o.c service?

I don't know if the BT Hub can provide the guest network on the wired connections, but as you would still need additional access points I would be tempted to use Ubiquiti UniFi or Mikrotik throughout plus an ADSL or FTTC modem. The UniFi kit looks good and has a reasonably friendly UI, most of the Mikrotik kit doesn't have such a polished design and you need to know what you are doing to configure it.

I've found CIX (the direct retail sales arm of ICUK) good value and very helpful in sorting out any issues.

whatever happens, Guest SSID or Main SSID
the bandwidth will be shared ...

And with the current BT products,the "BT wifi" SSID is only on the Main Hub, all the LAN sockets are connected to users network and primary/Main SSID LAN.

The only advantage of BT Wifi is
a) it is on private VPN so traffic isolated from the Main users LAN
b) each user has to login with a BT username/password from their BT Wifi account (so paid for unless free account from your BT home broadband) - and that identifies any abuser of the service (illegal downloads etc).

If you are going to share the Guest Wifi, you might as well just set up any 2nd SSID and share the LAN. (several routers offer multiple SSID's - different passwords)

if coverage is an issue, you might therefore look at BT Whole Home DisK solution - and run it on it's own common SSID. Reviews show it to be a value for money solution.

Given that it has to be paid for/account associated
Using BT Wifi as your Guest solution might not be the best route.
and you could extend with cable to the BT whole home disks now..

I thought that if ordering VDSL (FTTC) that a rearrangement of the NTE5 was available f.o.c. if requested with the order, especially since we considering BT Business as supplier?

Cheers!

Only if paying for an engineer install £99+VAT if memory serves me right

I thought that if ordering VDSL (FTTC) that a rearrangement of the NTE5 was available f.o.c. if requested with the order,

Not come across that I'm afraid.




* Or as Mr.S suggests, but not so many offering engineer installed FTTC these days I believe.

Edited by Zarjaz (Sat 03-Feb-18 17:25:59)

Ah!

The current NTE5 position is as far away as possible from the office and to either re-route internally - both filtered (phone) and unfiltered (VDSL) would be a nightmare. Being a Grade II listed building does not help. Whereas the removal of the existing NTE5 and drop-wire and fitting a new drop-wire to the building adjacent to the first floor office would look better. CAT5 or CAT6 from the router to Wi-Fi Access Points is relatively easy. I am considering BT Whole Home for the "Guest Access" via Ethernet due to the thick walled construction. This choice of Wi-Fi APs subject to the number of concurrent Wi-Fi connects possible. Unless I'm mistaken (which is often the case) similar systems may need an annual payment after the first couple of years. I like the ability to set operating hours for the Guest Access, which should prevent freeloaders sitting in the car-park at night .

Cheers!

Any reason as to why you would want to use BT Whole Home WiFi? You could achieve a similar setup for a much cheaper price e.g. Google Whole Home WiFi.

You could achieve a similar setup for a much cheaper price e.g. Google Whole Home WiFi.

Are you sure about that William? A quick check on Amazon shows a 3 disc BT system available for £189 (2 disc £140) whereas a 2 disc Google system looks to be around £229. No doubt both prices can be bettered but can't see a Google system dropping below the BT system with the same number of discs.

So what you actually require is a shift of NTE then.

LOL, that's interesting. BT's system used to be circa £300! That's some price drop!

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

So what you actually require is a shift of NTE then.

Yes, if that would give a new drop-wire from the same pole to the building with the wire coming in through to the first floor office.

To a non-Open Reach person like myself, "shift of NTE" could mean that the existing NTE is removed and replaced with either an internal or external junction box and a new wire run around the building on the surface.

Besides not looking as neat, I would also be concerned re internet speed. The checker shows an estimated line length of 472 metres, which I think is to the cabinet, to the exchange would be 619 metres.

In fact there may not be an existing NTE5 according to the checker it shows Bridge Tap U, VRI N and NTEFaceplate N last test date 19-05-2017. I will have a look tomorrow - from memory there is a pile of junk there. It may be the non-split style of master socket.

Cheers!

An NTE shift costs over £100. A new line install around £54 (that's what we charge anyway). So a new line might be worth a look, as mentioned.

My approach would be:
* Order a new line with broadband from TTB or Zen; this will place the master socket where you want it at minimal cost. Use BT if you must; it might just be to your advantage with their daily offers.
* Use a Draytek 2860Vac Router
* Update the router to the latest firmware
* Configure the Hotspot Web Portal to your desires
* Replace the aerials on the DrayTek router
* Loop the exchange line through the router
* When the new line is operational, port the existing exchange line to a VoIP hosting provider. Draytel is worthy of consideration perhaps in conjunction with their PAYG service. You might be in contract with BT, check this out.
* Acquire a suitable Gigabit Switch with PoE
* Run separate Cat5 cables to the ground floor rooms
* Use adaptors that enable a POTS service and data ove a siigle cat5 cable with an AP at the far end. The choice of a hardwired or wireless phone is yours.

The gift of a free broadband service from your resident business user would be lost but at least you will have VAT invoices correctly addressed. The owner of that service may not agree to using his broadband service as a hotspot anyway.

You get to keep your existing exchange line number rental free with low call costs.

Be aware that 999 calls are normally unavailable on a VoIP service. The setup described gives access to the exchange line from any phone connected to the router using an appropriately configured dial plan in the Dratek router.

Just ideas for your consideration.

A couple of points to clarify.

It is not our intention to request our tenant to allow us to use his wireless internet for our "Guest" users in rooms that we hire out on a hourly basis.

Currently, the telephone is in my name. (I Chair the Management Committee) not ideal - I "inherited" it following the death of the previous Chairman. We were getting BT Bills in his name, I phoned BT asking if it could be transferred to me and to my amazement they did.

The village hall is not VAT registered - our turnover is too low and would increase our prices to users, plus give us more paperwork.

I was looking at the BT Whole Home product because, hopefully as intended for non-professional installation, it should be easy to set up. Its only downside I've noticed so far is that it cannot use POE, but I see that I can cheaply get POE splitters intended for CCTV, so I could feed the 12 volts from each 12v psu from the office. What I am unsure of is how many concurrent Wi-Fi users that BT system will allow.

ZyXEL Ceieling mount POE dual band Wireless APs have caught my eye (they are in the lates CPC everyday deals booklet which convieniently dropped though my door on Friday.

I use DrayTel for my work as a County Councillor, certainly cheap and apparently will accept 999 calls from UK customers if they register. Obviously dependant on power and internet availability.

Cheers!

Something like a few Ubiquiti Access Point with a cloud key or something running the Ubiquiti UniFi software to manage the network maybe an idea.
All support POE and can create separate WiFi networks and a guest portal. Plus to make more money for the Village Hall it can be integrated with PayPal for example and can get guests pay a small fee to use it?

You order it, and show the engineer who attends exactly where you wish the NTE to be, and also discuss/suggest a preferred route for the cable.

With such short distances involved, a couple of extra metres here and there will make no difference.

You may end up with a new joint on the eaves, but they are waterproof these days, and ht crimes inside are the same as used everywhere else in the network to joint pairs.

I'm a fan of the Ubiquiti access points too.

I've had over 30 on the BT Whole Home before without it causing any noticeable issues. The spec sheets are usually a bit conservative, but I should imagine it will do a fair number.

Remember to get the DHCP lease time to be as low as possible, else all 254 IPs might get used up.

I am worried slightly at your approach, even using the "Guest" feature, the line is still registered in your name and hence anything illegal done on there (child porn etc) would comeback to you. With a system such as O2 WiFi, The Cloud WiFi, BT WiFi etc, this liability does not exist. Unless you are meaning sharing the BTWiFi SSID which to my knowledge cannot be done on BT Whole Home WiFi, it will just share the standard connection. Also users would not get free access then.

Some others will know the legals better than me.

Do Ubiquiti require you to use a paid for annually management/software/licence fee?

Cheers!

Sounds hopeful. Tea/coffee + biscuits would be on hand too...

Cheers!

Nope, Ubiquiti UniFi does not have a separate annual software, licensing or management fee.

Fig Newtons ?

Fig Newtons? There was me thinking that up here in WNHAW, Bara Brith spread with butter would be the order of the day?

Cheers!

Oooh , bara brith spread with butter, VERY nice. My dad lived in St.Davids, that was a big fave of his, and mine when I was down that way.

(Welsh cakes too, now I come to think of it)

Drool. Following a holiday in St Davids a few years ago my wife started making Bara Brith, though she did use Yorkshire Tea, perhaps that was a bit naughty. It was, and is, delicious though.

Edited by cheshire_man (Tue 06-Feb-18 20:21:24)

Once your NTE5 and phone line has been sorted I agree with cymru123 and advice you to have a look at Ubiquiti AP Unifi system which will give you control who connects to your Wi-Fi, when, for how long at which time and days etc. The software is free to download and lifetime free use or buy a Ubiquiti cloud key.

Looking through some old posts - before I post another one - and I realise that I never gave the outcome for this one.

March 2019 changed from BT Retail for telephone only to BT Business phone and ADSL - we get a good speed.

For WiFi had two Ubiquiti access points fitted by a local guy. I was unavailable and he has installed before and was happy to run the cabling etc.

End result everyone happy.

Cheers!