Newbuild Wiring

I've just purchased a newbuild flat (haven't yet completed) which has ethernet sockets seemingly built-in, situated right next to TV/Radio/SAT wallplates (they're definitely RJ45, telephone sockets are located elsewhere). This setup is present in the living room as well as the master bedroom.

How are these ethernet sockets wired and how do I make use of them? There's an active Hyperoptic socket in the storage cupboard (the property is also eligible for BT Full Fibre), but I prefer wired connections for my computers for speed/stability/security, and I don't like the prospect of running cables under doors and across the floor.

Unfortunately the sales representative didn't know anything about this. Is there a standard method of wiring newbuilds that facilitates wired connections from storage/utility cupboards?

The ethernet cables should be going back to a central point. Probably the storage cupboard you mention ... if not obvious in there, are there maybe blanking plates on the wall hiding coiled up ethernet cables ?

When our home was built for us, all the ethernet points terminated in a cupboard in a big bunch and it was up to us to purchase an ethernet switch.

I know you are likely to be FTTP but for FTTC customers, the main router plugged into the switch and all other wired devices went into it too rather than the (usually 4) sockets on the back of the router. I would assume that your FTTP box will have a similar LAN socket.

I initially started with a dumb (unmanaged) 16-port switch by Netgear (they come in 4,8,16 and 32-port versions) but recently have changed it for one which also supplies PoE (power over ethernet) since I have an outdoor 4G router which needs a power supply. Although PoE is often optional and can be supplied to a single device by a PoE Injector it is often tidier to make it part of the switch.

If you can't get a decent answer get your solicitor to raise the issue with the developer's solicitors well before completion.

The information should be "on-file" but getting it may be difficult unless you really press.

NJSS

In reply to a post by TBUser2012:

Unfortunately the sales representative didn't know anything about this.

Find the Site Manager and ask them. Or find the electrician and ask.

If this is a new-build you should be provided with a manual for the house which should include plans. Also, the sales office should have a copy of the drawings including the electrical layout. Go see that.

If the sales person really doesn't know (I find that difficult to understand!) maybe this was an addition provided for a previous buyer who pulled out? Either way there are plans showing all the cables and where they run. Otherwise the electrician wouldn't know what to do!

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

In reply to a post by TBUser2012:

Unfortunately the sales representative didn't know anything about this.

Find the Site Manager and ask them. Or find the electrician and ask.

If this is a new-build you should be provided with a manual for the house which should include plans. Also, the sales office should have a copy of the drawings including the electrical layout. Go see that.

If the sales person really doesn't know (I find that difficult to understand!) maybe this was an addition provided for a previous buyer who pulled out? Either way there are plans showing all the cables and where they run. Otherwise the electrician wouldn't know what to do!

I know Hyperoptic was built-in as standard for the development, and I'll be provided with a full property information manual upon completion, but I thought perhaps I could figure out a setup in the interim. I did manage to take a couple of pictures if that helps.

The brochure/specification just states that the living room and master bedroom are wired to receive digital television, Sky+ HD and Virgin, which based on my understanding are oddly specific services to list when I all see are standard sockets.

The sales representative was more traditional in terms of property features and less technically inclined, which seems to be the norm. I previously rented a newbuild property that also seemingly had pre-wired ethernet, and when I had Sky services installed, the Openreach engineer said none of the sockets were actually live/working because of something in the storage cupboard not being connected (where the master socket was), and neither the managing agent nor the landlord nor the developer cared to figure it out and fix it because the vast majority of people are satisfied with WiFi. There seems to be a trend of placing master sockets in out-of-sight storage/utility areas for newbuilds.

Edited by TBUser2012 (Fri 26-Jun-20 11:00:00)

In reply to a post by TBUser2012:

The sales representative was more traditional in terms of property features and less technically inclined, which seems to be the norm.

I've met them!

I bought a property off-plan and the developer has a number of 'optional' extras to offer. That included kitchen upgrades, extra sockets, radiators moved, whatever you liked other than the walls moved! So the sales office had a full set of plans inside and out so I could see where everything would be and if I wanted - for a fee - to move a socket.

Maybe your property is beyond that but the office will still have a plan. My plan would be to see that plan!

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

In reply to a post by TBUser2012:

The sales representative was more traditional in terms of property features and less technically inclined, which seems to be the norm.

I bought a property off-plan and the developer has a number of 'optional' extras to offer. That included kitchen upgrades, extra sockets, radiators moved, whatever you liked other than the walls moved! So the sales office had a full set of plans inside and out so I could see where everything would be and if I wanted - for a fee - to move a socket.

Maybe your property is beyond that but the office will still have a plan. My plan would be to see that plan!

The development was completed last year and I'm one of the last buyers, due to move in within the next couple of weeks. The sales office was closed even before the lockdown.

I would have definitely paid to move/add sockets. Instead I now have three (!) telephone sockets where I would much prefer ethernet.

Edited by TBUser2012 (Fri 26-Jun-20 11:07:03)

In reply to a post by TBUser2012:

The development was completed last year and I'm one of the last buyers, due to move in within the next couple of weeks. The sales office was closed even before the lockdown.

I would have definitely paid to move/add sockets. Instead I now three (!) telephone sockets where I would much prefer ethernet.

That makes me even more likely to think someone else ordered them and pulled out.

What's nice about new builds is they're mostly plasterboard and its dramatic but easy to cut into, run cable and seal up again. I had some electrical work done that required the ceiling opened up (a 20 cms hole every meter, about 7 or 8) and once patched up and refinished you wouldn't know.

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

In reply to a post by TBUser2012:

The development was completed last year and I'm one of the last buyers, due to move in within the next couple of weeks. The sales office was closed even before the lockdown.

I would have definitely paid to move/add sockets. Instead I now three (!) telephone sockets where I would much prefer ethernet.

That makes me even more likely to think someone else ordered them and pulled out.

What's nice about new builds is they're mostly plasterboard and its dramatic but easy to cut into, run cable and seal up again. I had some electrical work done that required the ceiling opened up (a 20 cms hole every meter, about 7 or 8) and once patched up and refinished you wouldn't know.

Someone did pull out, but the standard brochure/specification states that the living room and master bedroom are wired to receive digital television, Sky+ HD and Virgin. It obviously doesn't specify how exactly that works.

I'll definitely think about rewiring in the future, instead of just running long cables through trunking.

You may find that there is somewhere central where all those ethernet cables emerge, including one from the fibre termination or hyperoptic socket. Openreach make the point in their developer guide that whilst the usual location for the ONT is in a cupboard and/or under the stairs, putting the router with inbuilt WiFi access point there will give poor coverage. So they suggest ethernet from ONT to router in a central location, then from the router to anything cabled.

In reply to a post by TBUser2012:

the standard brochure/specification states that the living room and master bedroom are wired to receive digital television, Sky+ HD and Virgin. It obviously doesn't specify how exactly that works.

Be mindful that those triplex\quadplex sockets (SAT,TV and Radio) will go back to an amp and its highly likely they won't be compatible with Sky Q as Sky+ HD and Sky Q LNB's are not forward and backward compatible.

Edited by deleted (Fri 26-Jun-20 13:33:40)

It could be worth looking at the cable type that has been used for those phone extensions. I've seen cat5 used for phone extension wiring, which just need the faceplates changing/rewiring and RJ45 connectors adding on the other ends where the cables go back to the master. That may mean there are more options there than you think. If they haven't used cat5 though, that won't help! Just a thought

In reply to a post by eded2000:

I've seen cat5 used for phone extension wiring, which just need the faceplates changing/rewiring and RJ45 connectors adding on the other ends where the cables go back to the master.

Exactly what happened to me. I asked the developer to run some Ethernet cables to various rooms. They did that and left phone sockets on the wall. I just swooped those for proper ethernet sockets.

In reply to a post by TBUser2012:

pictures

Would be good to know whats behind those 2 blanking plates.

or as builders and some electricians do, use alarm cable for phone and data - because it is much cheaper and there are 8 wires.

And given the close proximity of the 13A sockets - wait until someone tries to use the upper left, does not inspire confidence. That who set-up is a mess and I would love to see the birds nest behind.

Edited by MHC (Fri 26-Jun-20 14:41:50)

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by TBUser2012:

pictures

Would be good to know whats behind those 2 blanking plates.

Yep.

Good morning! When it comes to the New-Build developments and the setups, here's what we can advise you on.

We'd like to confirm something. Do you have a patch panel (with different sockets/ports) and ethernet (LAN) ports connected to it around the flat that could transmit the signal? If that is the case, you can plug the WAN/ethernet cable into the Hyperoptic socket and instead of plugging the other end into the router, you can plug it into one of the ports on the patch panel. Which port on the patch panel you'll choose will be up to you, depending on where the broadband signal from it would be transferred to. For example, Port 1 can be connected to the LAN port in the living room. To have a better signal you can relocate the router from the cupboard and then connect it to that living room port. This is just an example of how you could go about this.

Please note that we weren't the ones installing the internal wiring and that you may need to speak to your concierge/building management about the connection of the patch panel to the ports around the flat.

We hope this information helps. If you have more questions, feel free to send us a private message and we'll gladly advise further.

We wish you a pleasant rest of the day and stay safe!

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by TBUser2012:

pictures

Would be good to know whats behind those 2 blanking plates.

Yep.

So I finally managed to unscrew them, and I'm clueless.

(Next to the Hyperoptic master socket is a standard BT phone socket.)

Can you pull any-more of the wire through?

And if so, what is written on them? And where do they go to? Can you get clearer picture of the cable and cores?



First guess ... The red and green are Cat6 cables, 4 off.

The white, they look more like sat TV distribution ...

I’d agree with your guesses MHC

Are there blanking plates in any of the rooms? It could be that the Cat 6 cables run to other locations in the property and it is for you to have the appropriate sockets installed for those you decide to use.

In reply to a post by MHC:

Can you pull any-more of the wire through?

And if so, what is written on them? And where do they go to? Can you get clearer picture of the cable and cores?



First guess ... The red and green are Cat6 cables, 4 off.

The white, they look more like sat TV distribution ...

I can't seem to pull any of the cables further through, and from what I'm able to see there's nothing written on them.

I have been supplied with some electrical plans, although they only indicate where the outlets are located, and the type of outlets they are supposed to be, but not how they are all interconnected.

Where I physically see 3x BT phone sockets, the plans state they should be "CAT5E RJ45 TELEPHONE EXTENSION OUTLET". In addition to this, the main bedroom and living room have these "media plates". The plans describe these "media plates" as follows: "4 EURO MODULE PLATE WITH 1No TV / FM / SAT 1 & 2 QUAD MODULE, 1No CAT5E RJ45 MODULE AND 1No MODULE FOR FUTURE VIRGIN MEDIA CO-AX PROVISION (CABLE LEFT BEHIND PLATE FOR FUTURE TERMINATION BY VIRGIN MEDIA)."

The service cupboard (as depicted in the plans) has points for BT Fibre, Hyperoptic and Virgin Media.

You are very lucky in that you seem to have Openreach fttp and Hyperoptic fttb available. Hyperoptic for example offer a 150/150 service for £38 (£35?) after 12 months. In this situation you could choose to take all your services over the Ethernet cables from the internet, i.e. don't use the copper phone and TV wiring.

But you probably have the "classic" wiring. All the sockets around the flat are usually wired back to a central point and that is what we see in your second picture. Here you have to feed into the cables whatever services you want. To do this you need wall plates with sockets, the top one looks like you need 4 ethernet sockets RJ45 and for the bottom one you fit 4x female F-sockets.

You then use up to 4 ethernet patch leads from your new sockets to the sockets on whichever router you are using, and then you can find out by trial and error which new socket goes to which socket in the flat.

Similarly, if you had a Sky+HD dish you would plug the two downleads into the new sockets and fit the Sky box in the living room or master bedroom and identify the cables. Or you could feed in a Virgin service the same way if you had one. You can combine TV/FM/DAB aerial signals on the same cables too.

But of course Sky is now moving to SkyQ so you only need one cable for that. There is also SkyX in which the signals are delivered over the internet. The way of the future, not yet available in the UK (but see NowTV, etc for internet TV).

If you need more ethernet sockets in rooms where there aren't any, you may get lucky by changing the phone sockets to ethernet, or you may be able to use the phone wires to pull through ethernet cables, or use other access means, such as homeplug or wifi.

The suggestion from Hyperoptic to move their router out into the flat does not seem helpful as you want to use wired connections. It might be a good idea if you needed a better wifi coverage, but the way to do this would be to put a wireless access point on one of your ethernet sockets around the flat.

It was a pain trying to get my phone to focus properly, but it seems there are 8 internal wires, so I'm assuming these are definitely somehow connected to the RJ45 outlets around the property.

That sounds promising even if a bit of extra work is required. My intention is to have two additional routers in bridge mode, each situated near a RJ45 outlet to support multiple wired connections (desktops/consoles) at each 'base'.

I'm still waiting for information from the developer's technical team (who are best able to assist but have been the most absent throughout this entire process).

Those look like Cat5e/6 cables.

Fit a four module RJ45 faceplate to there and have your modem/hub/router close by.

From there, a short patch lead into each socket means you will get a network connection to three or four places. Then as you suggest, if one is in a study for example a small switch will allow you to coonect PC, printer, NAS, WAP ... locally.

Not the best way for it to be done, but if a builder can save £20 on a £400,000 house he will do it. It is typical builder laziness tha he di d not even fit RJ45s or source/specify matching accessory plates. And as for the ***** that put the Hyperotic termination there ... so close to a power socket, it would be obvious that fouling of power leads would occur.

From what you said before, it looks like you should have Cat5e cable to the telephone sockets, and to the media plates, so these could be used for ethernet. That's 5 cables. Also apparently 3 or 4 coaxial cables to each media plate.

It remains to be seen how many there actually are and if it matches the number in the service cupboard. But with luck it will all match up, and perhaps you now have enough info to take it from there.

If you need more accurate info that you are going to act on before you move in, it may be safer to go and have another look if you can, rather than rely on what anyone else says!

Hello! We just want to make sure that you're aware of all the possibilities. You can leave the router where it is and still have other sockets in the new build home activated through the patch board. If you need any further clarification and assistance with your home setup, feel free to send us a message and we'll gladly assist!

In reply to a post by TBUser2012:

My intention is to have two additional routers in bridge mode, each situated near a RJ45 outlet to support multiple wired connections (desktops/consoles) at each 'base'.

For one service you can only have one router, and unless you have a block of IP4 addresses and are routing them, you'll want that router to do NAT. You will want a network switch if you have more wired devices than sockets at any location, and depending on the size and layout you might want a WiFi access point.

Or, rather than an actual switch, he can repurpose an old hub. Turn off DHCP and it will become a switch with WAP. I believe that is what the OP means.

In reply to a post by Nick_W789:

In reply to a post by TBUser2012:

My intention is to have two additional routers in bridge mode, each situated near a RJ45 outlet to support multiple wired connections (desktops/consoles) at each 'base'.

For one service you can only have one router, and unless you have a block of IP4 addresses and are routing them, you'll want that router to do NAT. You will want a network switch if you have more wired devices than sockets at any location, and depending on the size and layout you might want a WiFi access point.

Doesn't bridge mode disable NAT? I had an old AirPort Time Capsule which worked fine in this manner (connected to the LAN1 port of the ISP router).

In reply to a post by MHC:

Not the best way for it to be done, but if a builder can save £20 on a £400,000 house he will do it. It is typical builder laziness tha he di d not even fit RJ45s or source/specify matching accessory plates. And as for the ***** that put the Hyperotic termination there ... so close to a power socket, it would be obvious that fouling of power leads would occur.

I guess when building 250+ apartments, a £5000 saving is worth it when so few buyers/landlords/tenants care about wired connectivity.

Can you elaborate on the problem with the power socket/leads? Should I not use the upper-left socket?

I was asked to attend a meeting during conversion of some new apartments in respect of putting in basic comms connections. Builder was insistent that he was to use 'phone cable, whereas the architect wanted at least Cat5e. Cost of extra cable - under £50, cost of my time £400.


The sockets are fine to use, but you will start to find the "wall warts" interfering with each other.

Leave the one in the lower left, with an upward facing cable, then put the other, with downward cable in te upper left - they will clash. The lower right at present is close to, if not touching the Hyperoptic install. Neither are very clever - and some basic thought would have done things differently with greater spacing and perhaps another pair or two.

And for comms areas it is much better to use sockets with outboard rockers (switches) to ensure accidental switching does not happen, or even ones without switches.

It is just bad planning and installation.

In reply to a post by TBUser2012:

Doesn't bridge mode disable NAT? I had an old AirPort Time Capsule which worked fine in this manner (connected to the LAN1 port of the ISP router).

It does - bridge mode just presents whatever IP addresses (usually one) your ISP gives you, over Ethernet. It handles the PPPOE login and conversion from the physical media and that is all. Assuming you have more devices than public IPs, you’ll need something to do NAT; I’m not familiar with the Time Capsule but there are access points with routing, NAT and DHCP functionality such as the Linksys Velop which Gigaclear use.

Wait, are you sure that the ethernet cables should be going back to a central point?

In reply to a post by karenfisher:

Wait, are you sure that the ethernet cables should be going back to a central point?

What makes you say this?

This could be a pre-spam, spam. IYSWIM

Zombie thread reanimation?

That’s typical modus operandi of a 1 post spammer…