In reply to a post by zyborg47:

It is not just the routers, a lot of the smart home products uses 2.4ghz and how many of them still use 802.11a or G. I have a fair few smart plugs in the house, I have no idea what protocol they use, all I know is that they use 2.4Ghz, My cameras, all use 2.4Ghz, i presume they will use 802.11G, but I don't know that.

Cameras probably use WiFi but other smart gadgets may use Zigbee or Thread, and these are not 802.11 protocols but completely different. They don't talk through your router, but to their own hub, e.g. Philips Hue lighting.

wonder what some older Wi-fi printers use.
I think it will be years before we get rid of the older systems with so much still relying on it.
New routers still support all the older standards, so I think you will be waiting for many years.

Pretty much WiFi N is the lowest standard I would see for a WiFi built in printer. Before that any WiFi printer would have been very expensive and not many sold.

At some point I will get another router, but I am in no rush as this one is working fine, better than the newer standards that seems to come to a stop as soon as a wall is in its way,

Understood, just worth being aware of the downsides of running a lot of B and G devices on an N or AC network.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Cameras probably use WiFi but other smart gadgets may use Zigbee or Thread, and these are not 802.11 protocols but completely different. They don't talk through your router, but to their own hub, e.g. Philips Hue lighting.

You may need to have a look at what is available, while Philips Hue uses it own hub, it does use a modified version of Zigbee to connect to it devices, a lot of smart bulbs don't. My brother have a couple of smart bulbs, and they use Wi-Fi, all the smart plugs i have use Wi-Fi, have a look at Teckin. There are others sold under different names, that looks the same. They all use the smart life app and use Wi-Fi. Even big names like TP-link smart plugs, all use Wi-Fi, TP-link uses a modified version of smart life app.

Anyway, even if devices use a hub, that hub still have to connect to a router and again, most uses 2.4Ghz, my blink cameras have a hub, but that hub still have to connect to my router.
Philips Hue hub is Ethernet only, but to be honest if i knew what I know now when I got it, I would never have got a Philips Hue, far too expensive and the bulbs are not great compared to cheaper ones. £15 for a bulb, I can get two Wi-Fi ones for less than that, A motion sensor for Philips Hue is £40, thankfully there are others that work with them and are a lot cheaper, like the ones from Ikea,

but many, many smart home products, don't use a hub.

Pretty much WiFi N is the lowest standard I would see for a WiFi built in printer. Before that any WiFi printer would have been very expensive and not many sold.

Apart from the Brother LED printer i have, I only ever had one other Wi-fi printer. Ok and my Canon Selphy photo printer, but that is only made for photos and can't really print anything else, so it is made to print direct from a phone.

Understood, just worth being aware of the downsides of running a lot of B and G devices on an N or AC network.

Like what? As i have said before, this router Wi-fi have the most reliable Wi-fi i have ever had , maybe old tech, but it works better than the newer tech and the signal don't vanish when it hits a wall.

Just drop my two penneth here; had a look on my Ubiquiti dashboard at WiFi devices... scattered across the APs at home....

18 (32%) are using WiFi 5 / 802.11ac
36 (64%) are using WiFi 4 802.11n
2 (4%) are using WiFi 3 802.11g

The majority of devices using WiFi 4 are IoT things - Nest smoke detectors, kitchen and laundry smart appliances, Ring doorbell and chimes, smart plugs, aircon & boiler controls, underfloor heating thermostats, B-Hyve gear. Most of this stuff will still be here in 5 to 10 years, so 802.11n aint going anywhere fast...

The gear using WiFi 5 are all pretty much laptops, phones, watches etc. I've also got phones/laoptops connecting using WiFi 6 (ax) but on a sole non-UI access point.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Like what? As i have said before, this router Wi-fi have the most reliable Wi-fi i have ever had , maybe old tech, but it works better than the newer tech and the signal don't vanish when it hits a wall.

I suggest reading up on how N and AC were created and why the frames (yes, even at 2.4 GHz) transmitted through the air are more efficient than those created by G, and especially B. Actually removing active B or G devices from an N or later network can improve throughput.

WiFi bulbs have the pain of having to enter the WiFi key, and when you change ISP/get new router, they fell out of favour on the mass market because of this. Ethernet attached bridges to Zigbee, or the later Thread (almost Zigbee v2) are preferred by most home automation companies as they get significantly less support calls.

(Yes, Philips Hue isn't cheap, it was an example, not a recommendation).

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Just drop my two penneth here; had a look on my Ubiquiti dashboard at WiFi devices... scattered across the APs at home....

18 (32%) are using WiFi 5 / 802.11ac
36 (64%) are using WiFi 4 802.11n
2 (4%) are using WiFi 3 802.11g

The majority of devices using WiFi 4 are IoT things - Nest smoke detectors, kitchen and laundry smart appliances, Ring doorbell and chimes, smart plugs, aircon & boiler controls, underfloor heating thermostats, B-Hyve gear. Most of this stuff will still be here in 5 to 10 years, so 802.11n aint going anywhere fast...

The gear using WiFi 5 are all pretty much laptops, phones, watches etc. I've also got phones/laoptops connecting using WiFi 6 (ax) but on a sole non-UI access point.

You are correct, 802.11n is not going to go anywhere for a very long time, no matter hos hard jchamier wants it to.
My laptop is very old, i just looked up at what it uses and it is 802.11b/g, but i don't really use the laptop that often.

My router don't say what is using what, it just tells me what is connected and what IP address they use, the Zyzel would give me more info.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

I suggest reading up on how N and AC were created and why the frames (yes, even at 2.4 GHz) transmitted through the air are more efficient than those created by G, and especially B. Actually removing active B or G devices from an N or later network can improve throughput.

How or why?

Most of these standards are no doubt created to make more money, just to make people buy more products they don't need at the time. I am not saying there is no improvement with new specs, but the advertising makes out that people need it RIGHT NOW. They do the same with mobile phones and used to do it with computers, no doubt still do.

WiFi bulbs have the pain of having to enter the WiFi key, and when you change ISP/get new router, they fell out of favour on the mass market because of this. Ethernet attached bridges to Zigbee, or the later Thread (almost Zigbee v2) are preferred by most home automation companies as they get significantly less support calls.

(Yes, Philips Hue isn't cheap, it was an example, not a recommendation).

I have set up Wi-fi bulbs and never have to enter any key as it gets it from your phone and the app. The same with my Wi-fi plugs.
Just put them into pairing mode and away you go. I did have a problem with one at my brother's place and had to disable the 5Ghz on his router for a while.
There is a new thing coming called matter that is supposed to replace Zigbee and this is the problem, at least with Wi-fi it will stay, the only problem wi the companies that produce the apps and network to keep the devices working.

oh yeah as for changing routers, when i do change i am going to use the same SSID as i have now, then hopefully all my devices will just connect, it was a pain in the neck having to go around paring everything when the zyxel went belly up.

I am not saying wi-fi is always the best way for smart home devices, hubs normally mean you can do more with the devices, the Hue hub means I have more control of the bulbs and can do more things, for a start if my internet goes down, I can still use my phone to turn the lights on and off, I do have Hue dimmers on most of them.

The thing is, devices that use Wi-fi is cheap.

I looked more into this wi-fi 6 thing, just to get ahead a little, I did not realise it has been around since 2019 or that it worked on 2.4Ghz.
one day I will no doubt get a router with it built in, I am just in no rush to do so as the router I am using is doing the job I need. I did have a peak at prices, just for the fun of it, the cheapest one is around £40. I expect at some point, my provider which ever i go to next year will provide me with a new router.

A mate have been looking at my old Zyxel to see what have happened to it, he found a burnt out cap on it, he replaced that, but it still seems to be having a problem with keeping a wi-fi signal

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

How or why?

An article from 2007:
https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-fe...

and a similar one:
https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/basics/wireless-basi...

Most of the advice above is still relevant if you have B or G devices. If your devices are N then they can co-exist with the newer AC and AX systems without as much impact.

Most of these standards are no doubt created to make more money, just to make people buy more products they don't need at the time.

you can believe that if you want, but there are also technology advances that people pay for. Each person has to make their own decision how to spend their money, but it is worth being aware of the technology changes. Especially the speed of progression, a 5 year change in technology can provide significantly useful improvements.

As an example my friends have children in their 20s whom were not born when 802.11b was invented in 1999. 802.11g dates from 2003, so is 19 years old. Not many people have regularly used electronics that are that old.

(Although I have a CRT monitor in the cupboard from 1998 if anyone wants to take it off my hands)

Edited by jchamier (Thu 02-Jun-22 08:42:09)

thanks for the info, yes i do understand that technology have to change and I understand that mixing is not always good, my mate the one that is trying to sort out my Zyxel have told me a few times about the problems with the older Wi-fi systems, but he knows that it will be years before they vanish.


I did not realise that 802.11b/g was that old, i suppose because Wi-fi was not something people had then, or most of us anyway. I was still using co-ax network around then,

My Hi-fi that I use as an Amp for this desktop computer is over 35 years old, but I get what you mean about people not using old stuff, but I do try and keep things for as long as I can.


My mate phoned me this morning and asked me what other routers I have, I told him I have my old hub one, i got from plusnet, the one they replaced with the zyxel as it would not sync.
He said to try it as it may now that openreach seems to have sorted out the problem and may be better than the old TP-link.
so i have just put it in, and I am so glad I used a SSID I can use with any router, I use The_matrix as a SSID.
Once i got the router up and running, changed the SSID and password, eventually everything in the house that is on wi-fi connected.

So at the moment I am using my old Hub one and it is working, so far but we will wait and see. My mate said he will have another look at the zyxel when he has time.

i will keep the other stuff where it is at the moment, just in case. i just don't want to pay out for something that may be replaced in a few months time.


As for your CRT monitor, stick it on Ebay, if it is in good nick, there are a lot of people that collects and use vintage computer stuff.

oh yeah that bit about people wanting to make money, it was partly a joke, but sometimes they do update just for the sake of it.

Now i am going to go out for a couple of pints with some mates.

Edited by zyborg47 (Thu 02-Jun-22 12:04:38)

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Now i am going to go out for a couple of pints with some mates.

Enjoy!

If the advertising works then you have fallen foul of it by purchasing an Echo Dot and wifi bulbs and plugs. I'm sure your previous plugs and bulbs worked perfectly well.

You can't have a go at people wanting newer, usually better, technology and then buying stuff that is not really needed.