PSTN inc. FTTC isn't resilient. Period.

If you want resilient for a business you'll need to stump up for it:
- FTTP without cabinets
- Ethernet / EAD / DIA circuits
- Starlink

FTTP isn't resilient

Ethernet EAD/DIA is not resilient unless you take RO2 circuits.

Starlink isn't resilient.

None of those are good examples.

In reply to a post by therioman:

PSTN inc. FTTC isn't resilient. Period.

If you want resilient for a business you'll need to stump up for it:
- FTTP without cabinets
- Ethernet / EAD / DIA circuits
- Starlink

FTTP isn't resilient

Ethernet EAD/DIA is not resilient unless you take RO2 circuits.

Starlink isn't resilient.

None of those are good examples.

I'm talking about when 'the lights go out" - ie the topic of this thread - interruptions due to the electricity supply.

"Resilience" is a very big topic and I'm well aware that neither of the options are fully resilient in the simplest sense either physically / diversity or otherwise.

Nothing manmade is completely immune from catastrophic failure. How many people carry a spare mobile phone just in case their main one goes belly-up? You (figuratively) keep your fingers crossed and hope Lady Luck isn't having a really bad hair day when you really need it.

That's not to say some companies couldn't do more than they are doing but providing resilience costs money, sometimes a lot of it, and in most cases it doesn't sell phone or data contracts to ordinary customers. Assuming they've even heard of it

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

[...]
I'm talking about when 'the lights go out" - ie the topic of this thread - interruptions due to the electricity supply.

"Resilience" is a very big topic and I'm well aware that neither of the options are fully resilient in the simplest sense either physically / diversity or otherwise.

I think it's a bit daft not to acknowledge the relatively good level of resilience of the PSTN network (for voice), in its final incarnation, on occasions when "the lights go out". Note that I'm not making an argument for its retention, merely an acknowledgement that it was quite robust as a system.

Voice over FTTP - and speficially that provided as a 'managed solution' by a telco such as BT - has the potential to be quite resilient too, albeit on the condition that the end user has some sort of back up battery power supply.

I'm not sure how many people will bother with such a thing - but then again there will be a lot of people currently using DECT cordless phones on their PSTN lines that likely have little to no preparation for a power cut either. (Perhaps there is a corded phone in the house, but it's stuffed away in a box in the attic or under the stairs!)

I do wonder if there might come to be the suggestion of a take up of PMR walkie talkies as a (further) backup measure for those desiring some form of power-cut proof emergency communucation - though this would only be useful if adoption was reasonably widely spread.

One final thought... as reassurung an idea as it is of being able to summon say an ambulance or the police, it's less useful if you then have to wait several hours for them to turn up (if at all). But that's another conversation!

Edited by binary (Tue 24-Oct-23 11:23:48)

Yes this is why I put 'resilient' in quote marks - the phrase to me at least has a very specific meaning usually around dual paths and avoiding single points of failure, but I was replying to a post that used it to describe the existing PSTN network, hence the quote marks, because I don't agree that a single copper line is resilient at all.

You are right, having a resilient service can mean different things to different people be it individuals or businesses. The issue generally with the PSTN being switched off is people feel they are losing something so want their provider/openreach to do something about it. The fact there have always been vulnerabilities like cable damage, cable theft or something else typically goes over peoples heads as they are so focussed on the things that are losing now.

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

You are right, having a resilient service can mean different things to different people be it individuals or businesses. The issue generally with the PSTN being switched off is people feel they are losing something so want their provider/openreach to do something about it. The fact there have always been vulnerabilities like cable damage, cable theft or something else typically goes over peoples heads as they are so focussed on the things that are losing now.

No doubt you live in a metropolitan area with both fixed line and mobile communications and find it hard to take on board the consequences of being without any form of communication. The worry is that the people who do not have the same level of technical awareness as most people frequenting this and similar forums are gradually waking up to the consequences of the PSTN turn-off. This is of particular concern to those living in areas without any mobile reception. A lot of people in that situation are in vulnerable categories and are worried about the impact. In terms of resilience I can only speak from personal experience but we have never lost PSTN service in our mobile-signal free village in any of the power cuts we have seen so it is understandable that people feel they are being placed at risk without any sensible form of mitigation when the PSTN ceases.

Edited by GonePostal (Tue 24-Oct-23 13:45:12)

Power cuts (in a rural area like mine) are not uncommon, and PSTN is resilient in those situations while VoIP isn't.
Regarding other faults, I have always found that the (rare) PSTN faults that I and family have experienced have been fixed very quickly. Broadband faults not so much - it can take several days before an ISP even reports the fault to OR, and then several more days to get it fixed.
So although PSTN isn't totally resilient in all cases, it is more so than VoIP.

Have to add that overall VoIP just isn't as reliable as a landline, never will be. My elderly parents now on VoIP have so far had 3 occasions their 'landline' has stopped working but prior to moving over to Digital Voice with BT, we can't recall a time the landline hadn't worked.

Just many more things to go wrong, and now if there is a broadband problem, you can't use your landline to call support, making a mobile phone a necessity.

FTTP hopefully will bring some reliability improvements as people leave copper behind completely, but once upon a time you could rely on the landline, now, whilst many still have something that resembles a landline, it's just an emulation and is now far removed from what it once was

Of course the use of landlines has dropped so much there is no profit left in it, only the expense of maintaining all the equipment. I do think though that methods of communication have become far too complicated and fragmented, and one day, due to some emergency situation, we will suffer for not having a simple standard way everyone is connected.

Edited by E300 (Tue 24-Oct-23 14:20:20)

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

No doubt you live in a metropolitan area with both fixed line and mobile communications and find it hard to take on board the consequences of being without any form of communications.

No to living in a metropolitan/urban area, Yes to having FTTP (without a SHE) and barely for mobile communication even on a good day. I appreciate your communications situation isn't good.