Free upgrade - ADSL24

Got this email today, anyone else get one?

We've got some great news. We're rewarding your loyalty with a service upgrade!

From 1st October 2012, your monthly peak usage limit will be upgraded from 30GB to 50GB and your price reduced from £19.90 to £17.90. So that's more usage and a cheaper price!

This is a special deal offered only to a handful of selected customers, which is possible due recent negotiations with our wholesale provider.

There is nothing you need to do, as your settings and service details remain the same. We anticipate the upgrade to happen on 25th Sep 2012.

Edited by bobble_bob (Wed 19-Sep-12 15:50:47)

I got one of these too today.
We've got some great news. We're rewarding your loyalty with a service upgrade!

From 1st October 2012, your monthly peak usage limit will be upgraded from 60GB to 100GB and your price reduced from £29.90 to £25.90. So that's more usage and a cheaper price!

This is a special deal offered only to a handful of selected customers, which is possible due recent negotiations with our wholesale provider.

There is nothing you need to do, as your settings and service details remain the same. We anticipate the upgrade to happen on 28th Sep 2012.

On the day of your upgrade, you may experience a brief period of downtime. Don't panic, this is normal and should last no more than 10 minutes. If you find that you can't connect after half an hour, please contact our 24/7 UK support team on 01457 6000 25 for assistance.

We would like to thank you once again for your custom, and if you have any queries at all just drop us a reply to this e-mail.

Being moved to LLU?

Im not moving no. I suspect the thing about being disconnected is a generic email they send out for any upgrades, obviously wont apply to this.

If it was an LLu move, our login details would change, which the email says wont be

Edited by bobble_bob (Wed 19-Sep-12 16:39:17)

When I check my telephone number on the ADSL24 website I see this
Below are the packages available at your exchange. Click on a package name for more information. To check another line click here.

Your line currently has a cease order in progress. You will need to wait for this to complete or have your current provider cancel this if you wish to place an order with us.

Why would the line have a cease order on it?

Yea ive got that too, nothing in my account section tho. Not sure whats going on. Cant be a move to LLU as their packages are all unlimted peak anyway

https://www.samknows.com/broadband/broadband_checker

Tried that test and it doesnt say anything about a cease order. Wonder if its a qerk in the system?

Edited by bobble_bob (Wed 19-Sep-12 17:03:51)

I spoke to tech support (CS was closed) and they checked my line. They said the same as the checker that a cease is in place, but also an upgrade was requested and rejected yesterday. Im assumung that is the upgrade in the email, so dunno what to make of it. Still nothing in My Account section and i can still request a cease in there if i wanted

He said i had to ring CS tomorrow as they deal with that side of it

Edited by bobble_bob (Wed 19-Sep-12 17:37:33)

I got the e-mail too, I am on Home 30. I also see the message about the cease when I enter my number on the BT Wholesale ADSL checker

"Note: There is currently a Broadband cease pending or in progress against this line. This cease is due to complete by 25th September 2012 "

Interesting!

Run the BT checker and get this:

There is currently a Broadband cease pending or in progress against this line. This cease is due to complete by 25th September 2012. This will not stop you ordering Broadband from a new supplier, but will delay the provision of the new Broadband service.

That is the date the upgrade is meant to happen. Will find out tomorrow when i ring up

Sounds a bit like a change of wholesaler. But IIRC that wasn't what was in the email about the upgrade? Are you all on ADSL2+ already? (Just to check it isn't a change of DSLAM from ADSL(1)),

Im on ADSL2, could be a change of wholesaler but nothing about that in the email like yoj say, and wouldnt that requre a MAC not a cease?

Edited by bobble_bob (Thu 20-Sep-12 16:37:15)

So i emailed CS about this today, and got this reply

we are still using the Murphx network. We are utilising the LLU ADSL2+ equipment at the exchange, but only for the ADSL side, not the phone, so it does not affect your phone service. The actual service from the exchange is the same, so it goes over our current suppliers network.

So looks like we're moving to an LLU service. However, the LLU service ADSL24 provide isnt available at my exchange, so they must be using someone elses. So they will be borrowing their equipment but still going through their own network. So is it like a hybrid version of LLU?

If going from BT-based to LLU-based, it can still show as a Cease (a soft cease) it would have likely required a MAC to do the transfer which they've probably done automatically.

Of course, it does mean if you wanted to move to another supplier, you'd potentially have to pay £40 + VAT instead of the standard BT migration of £11 + VAT.

Matt

Cheers. Yea reason to move anyway as the level of service has been great so far

I concur, I'm on olde 20CN ADSL with ADSL24 and it has been excellent, but as long as this move has no detrimental effect then I'll stay with them.

You sure you arent on 21CN? The upgrade uses ADSL2+ tech at the exchange, which is 21CN

Yes I'm on ordinary ADSL. Local exchange shows a RFS date for 21CN WBC of the end of October. (31/10/12)

What LLU equipment is installed on your exchange? May give you a clue as to who they are migrating your service to.

Just gone through my old emails and it seems ADSL24 did activate their own LLU equipment a few month back at my exchange. Just found the email now which i forgot about.

ADSL24 don't have their own LLU equipment, they rent tails from wholesale LLU providers (O2, C&W etc)

The only enabled LLU at my exchange is TalkTalk

Yea sorry thats what i meant, got email saying whoever they use now has been enabled at my exchange

http://adsl24.co.uk/broadband/home/

Put your phone number in that, and does "Broadband & phone" come up as a possible option? Thats what we're being moved to (minus the phone bit)

Edited by bobble_bob (Thu 20-Sep-12 19:16:45)

So looks like it's TT's LLU kit?

Still runs though Murphx network though, so not sure how it all works

So working on the assumption it's a move to LLU does that mean I escape the dreaded BT DLM profiling?

I am fairly sure this will be TalkTalk that ADSL24 are moving customers to. It's within Daisy's current portfolio.

In reply to a post by ron3003:

So working on the assumption it's a move to LLU does that mean I escape the dreaded BT DLM profiling?

Yes.

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

The upgrade uses ADSL2+ tech at the exchange, which is 21CN

Uh uh !

You have that the wrong way round. 21CN is ADSL2+.

ADSL2+ is a higher performance version of ADSL, using twice as many downstream frequencies. Most LLU has used ADSL2+ for years - I believe some early TalkTalk exchanges only gave 8Mbps LLU, but I don't know if that was ADSL or ADSL2+.

BT's 21CN broadband is just BT Wholesale putting their ADSL2+ kit into the exchange, to catch up with the LLU providers. 21CN does not affect LLU in the slightest.

Of course, it does mean if you wanted to move to another supplier, you'd potentially have to pay £40 + VAT instead of the standard BT migration of £11 + VAT.

That's the thing that is bothering me especially since none of us requested this move.

Although its only the Talk Talk kit at the exchange, ADSL24 still keeping us on the Murphx/Daisy network it seems

Edited by bobble_bob (Thu 20-Sep-12 20:31:58)

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

Although its only the Talk Talk kit at the exchange, ADSL24 still keeping us on the Murphx/Daisy network it seems

Yup, though Daisy *Murphx is long gone* have had TT stuff terminated in their network for quite some time.

I presume the commercials have changed to allow this to support customer growing expectations and demands...ie: more usage.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

21CN is ADSL2+.

I would say your wrong also. 21CN is just the network. ADSL2+ is a technology that BT have decided to use across it. 21CN also delivers ADSL1, FTTx, EFM etc

Edited by aquiss (Thu 20-Sep-12 20:59:58)

Not sure why they upgraded me really, if they look at my usage i only use about half of my allowance anyway

Do all routers work with LLU then? As the email (and reply from Customer Service) said there wont be a problem with compatibilty and nothing settings wise will change

Edited by bobble_bob (Thu 20-Sep-12 21:07:21)

Technically yes, I agree .

I was more concerned about the possible misunderstanding we often come across on these forums, where posters ask if they will now be able to have x,y,z, LLU because their exchange has just been ADSL2+ (WBC) enabled.

Is 21CN PSTN still on the cards, or has that been indefinitely postponed? Or did the problems get fixed and many of us are now on it? (Something of a departure from the topic).

Ah! Just about to post, when my brain said - Do I agree?

The network is surely WBC? .

ADSL2+ is merely the default protocol on BT Wholesale's WBC and WBMC products. These also carry IPSC, which isn't the same thing as an ADSL(1) profile. There being other options of course.

In reply to a post by uno:

If going from BT-based to LLU-based, it can still show as a Cease (a soft cease) it would have likely required a MAC to do the transfer which they've probably done automatically.

Of course, it does mean if you wanted to move to another supplier, you'd potentially have to pay £40 + VAT instead of the standard BT migration of £11 + VAT.

Matt

Only if it is fully unbundled and they can't do that without them affecting the phone and they can't do that if the consumer is with a different phone provider.

and you know that full well, why are trying to scare people for. Oh yes so maybe they will drop ADSl24 and use your service instead.

Now i seen it all.

No, that's not correct at all.

BT charge £40 + VAT when moving FROM a non-BTW service (i.e SMPF LLU) to a BTW service.

MPF is completely unrelated to those charges and is not what is being discussed.

Matt

Edited by uno (Thu 20-Sep-12 22:43:51)

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

Not sure why they upgraded me really, if they look at my usage i only use about half of my allowance anyway

However, improving the companies bottom line commercials would not take that into account

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

Do all routers work with LLU then?

In the UK "LLU" is just a term that means non BT equipment. What's sat at the exchange itself "the equipment run by the LLU companies, TT, O2, C&W, Sky etc tends to be similar.

I would say 99.9% of modern router/modems will be just fine.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The network is surely WBC? .

ADSL2+ is merely the default protocol on BT Wholesale's WBC and WBMC products. These also carry IPSC, which isn't the same thing as an ADSL(1) profile. There being other options of course.

Network : 21CN
BT Product : WBC or WBMC (LLU providers could drop in here, but still take over 21CN, FTTx for instance)
Modulation Technology : ADSL2+

i got this email months ago it was an automatic switch over for me, went from 30gb peak unlimited offpeak to unlimited all the time(no price reduction i got bummed), i got switched from bt to an llu provider (bt doesnt do adsl2+ on my exchange) i have run some tracerts after i switched seem's the back haul is the same just the equipment i connect to at the exchange has changed

still 20 quid a month if i had changed to llu via adsl24 website i would have got unlimited for 17 quid a month

Who can you tell you have been switched then if a traceroute doesnt show any difference?

I read it as the fact he's connected using ADSL2+ which is something BTW didn't / doesn't offer at his exchange.

A traceroute would not necessarily change to reflect a change in wholesaler if ADSL24 operate their own kit as the feed from from the wholesaler maybe connected to the same edge router and you of course don't see anything between you and the edge router.

Yea was just wondering if come Tuesday (the expected changeover) how i would know if its been done or not. Im on adsl2 anyway so cant see a way to find out

Dunno if its related to the switchover, but ive no stats in my account area. Online status, connection log, usage etc all blank. Anyone else got same?

Meant to change over tomorrow

How long was the downtime for you between getting switched over? And did any login details change? Sods law that i need a stable connection tomorrow for work reasons so dont want much downtime

Yes I noticed earlier a lof of stats / info was missing, I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the switchover expected to happen tomorrow.

Been changed over, just need to get stats working now on account bit

Got this email to. I still get an invoice for £39.90. I emailed them and they said it's an error and will sort it out by the end of the day which was 2 days ago. it still shows £39.9

If you pay by direct debit or continuous card check your invoice.

Something else, why do you keep saying switchover? Surely it's against the law to do this without telling us

Edited by deleted (Wed 26-Sep-12 12:23:12)

What law?

You have a contract with ADSL24 to provide the service you signed up to. Who the underlying providers are is nothing to do with the customer. Like supermarket own-label baked beans.

It's only if the supermarket's Heinz Baked Beans are counterfeit that the customer has a legitimate complaint.

My payment isnt due now till mid October anyway.

Account stats still messed up, but im wondering if they wont be sorted until the 1st, when that is technically when the new package starts

Would imagine too that most customers dont even know that ADSL24 dont actually provide the network that allows them to connect to the internet. Most just want an working connection and dont care or know about LLU, Murphx, Daisy etc.

In reply to a post by osborn99:

Got this email to. I still get an invoice for £39.90. I emailed them and they said it's an error and will sort it out by the end of the day which was 2 days ago. it still shows £39.9

If you pay by direct debit or continuous card check your invoice.

Then get in touch with them ring them up.

Something else, why do you keep saying switchover? Surely it's against the law to do this without telling us

Depends on what they are switching over. If they are just switching from original Bt ADSL to their ADSl2+, then I doubt there is a problem. If they are switching you to a different network that could make it difficult for you to move to another ISp, then I presume they need to tell you.

But then Talk Talk gets away with it.

They have moved us from BT ADSL/ADSL2+ to their own LLU ADSL2+ which uses Talk talk at the exchange. However we still go through the same wholesale network, its just the tech at the exchange that is changing. Technically they did tell us, but by the time we found out a cease order was placed on our line so they could switch us to LLU

Dont have an issue with it to be honest but can see why some wouldnt be happy being LLU'ed without a choice

Edited by bobble_bob (Wed 26-Sep-12 22:16:32)

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

They have moved us from BT ADSL/ADSL2+ to their own LLU ADSL2+ which uses Talk talk at the exchange. However we still go through the same wholesale network, its just the tech at the exchange that is changing. Technically they did tell us, but by the time we found out a cease order was placed on our line so they could switch us to LLU

Dont have an issue with it to be honest but can see why some wouldnt be happy being LLU'ed without a choice

but Talk Talk only does fully unbundled systems, so that means your phone service would have to be moved, something that could not be done without your permission. If LLu can be partly done on the Talk Talk system, then why the hell don't Talk Talk do it?

i must admit, if ADSL24 or any other ISP put my service onto Talk Talk equipment I would not be happy. thank goodness we got the choice of cable and wireless here, just in case I can back to ADSl from my wireless service at some point.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

but Talk Talk only does fully unbundled systems, so that means your phone service would have to be moved, something that could not be done without your permission.

That's TalkTalk Retail, who can choose what they wish to market and not market, not TalkTalk Business Wholesale.

If LLu can be partly done on the Talk Talk system, then why the hell don't Talk Talk do it?

Wholesale might be quite happy selling space on a DSLAM that has oodles of spare connections, and not having to provide the backhaul and handling for the broadband and phone service? Helps cover the fixed costs in the exchnage.

No only the broadband side has been moved.

Got a question for you RobertoS. Since being moved i canchange the target SNR in my account area on the website. Its currently set at 6db, but tempted to put it up to 9db as the line is a little unstable and the loss of speed doesnt bother me

First time ive had this option before, but can you change the SNR up and down as many times as you like?

Edited by bobble_bob (Wed 26-Sep-12 22:53:57)

No idea sorry. I expect they'll tell you though. Or if you want to steer clear of support and get the horse's mouth, PM ADSL24 here. That's James - the boss.

Post deleted by samuk

Not so sure it is good news. On checking my line with ADLS24 Availability Checker I get the message "Your line currently has a live LLU based service present." So it seems my upgrade has been a surreptitious switch from ADSL2+ to TalkTalk LLU, a company I have avoided in the past. The cost saving of £2 per month could be rapidly lost if I decide to migrate away from ADSL24 at a cost £40 + VAT, as there is no other LLU provider on my exchange.
If this is the case and I have been trapped into LLU then I feel that ADSL24 have been guilty of sharp practice by making such a switch without my prior consent.

Are you sure that a migration from ADSL24 partial LLU to another provider of either ADSL MAX or a 21CN WBC service will involve a migration fee of £40 + VAT?

Edited by 4M2 (Thu 27-Sep-12 02:21:42)

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Are you sure that a migration from ADSL24 partial LLU to another provider of either ADSL MAX or a 21CN WBC service will involve a migration fee of £40 + VAT?

If the broadband has been moved to a LLU network, then the migration cost back to a BT based service will be in the region of £40. Apart from a couple of main big ISPs, most companies appear to charge a migration fee to move from LLU, presently.

In reply to a post by aquiss:

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Are you sure that a migration from ADSL24 partial LLU to another provider of either ADSL MAX or a 21CN WBC service will involve a migration fee of £40 + VAT?

If the broadband has been moved to a LLU network, then the migration cost back to a BT based service will be in the region of £40. Apart from a couple of main big ISPs, most companies appear to charge a migration fee to move from LLU, presently.

So ADSL24 moving customers to partial LLU without informing them of the potential costs of migration to a BT based service in the future could indeed cause a degree of dissatisfaction with the way it was handled?

I thought that at first, but that isnt really of ADSL24's concern. As a customer of theres, it is there job to give you the best service they can at the best price. If moving you to LLU is needed to do that they will.

I know its abit [censored] for customers who do get charged a fee if we want to move, but ADSL24 wont be picking up the bill so probably isnt an issue to them

In reply to a post by 4M2:

So ADSL24 moving customers to partial LLU without informing them of the potential costs of migration to a BT based service in the future could indeed cause a degree of dissatisfaction with the way it was handled?

In my view, yes. However, by the time a customer find out they could well be leaving.

If i maybe ask a question though, why have board members of ADSL24 Internet recently launched http://www.sopurple.co.uk/ (mirror image of ADSL24 site) ?

In reply to a post by aquiss:

If i maybe ask a question though, why have board members of ADSL24 Internet recently launched http://www.sopurple.co.uk/ (mirror image of ADSL24 site) ?

That's the first time of heard of So Purple but the Premium LLU - unlimited Premium Plus deal looks pretty good. No setup costs but there does seem to be a lack of clarity regarding contract length:

"Many of our contracts are just 1 month rolling, giving you the flexibility to change your package or switch services without being tied in. Our 12 month contracts are typically due to the agreement we have with our suppliers, hence why we are not able to lower the contract length on these services, however we often have options to end the contract early should this be required."

In reply to a post by aquiss:

If i maybe ask a question though, why have board members of ADSL24 Internet recently launched http://www.sopurple.co.uk/ (mirror image of ADSL24 site) ?

Interesting . How did you discover that one? Monitoring company formations?

The most obvious explanation could be that now we have FTTC/FTTP and possibly even Wholesale LTE coming along, the name ADSL24 is somewhat anachronistic.

Is everything in effect the same? There's a lot to check. Though the IP Profile FAQ for WBC ADSL2+ is somewhat out-dated, as well as including LLU connections within it. LOL.

Looks as though it is in mid-development! There are image placemarkers there without the images.

Interesting just started downloading and speed was 1.7MB , more than double what I usually get. Fantastic. I typed my phone number number in the broadband checker and it says it can go up to 8mb. Any one else notice increase in speed since the switchover?

Had this email a few weeks ago, and was seemingly upgraded at midnight on the 28th - but have since had constant disconnects, only connecting for a maximum of 9 minutes on saturday afternoon, with the router error PPP link down (internet)

i am also syncing at 15000, where it used to be 8000, but its kinda pointless as i cant browse anyway.

is there any way to roll this back? the email made no mention of switching service, just that my download/upload limit was being increased, and my cost being decreased.

thanks for any replies.

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/t/4162273-o...

Read my thread, i was upgraded and having similar issues

Anyone noticed their usage figures not working since the upgrade?

I had my "upgrade" last Thursday, since then I have been having lots of problems (slow speeds, dropped connections). Support line just has a recorded message saying they know of a problem and expect an update on the situation on Monday morning (it is now Monday evening). Nothing on web site. What happened to their service?

To be fair their service has been pretty spot on, its only this weekend that we had problems (just so happens that alot got changed onto LLU at the same time) although i dont think the 2 are linked

So far my experience has been that my sync speed has slightly increased, but, and it is a big but page loading is considerably slower than before I was switched to LLU.
I bluntly asked ADSL24 "Is this a surreptitious switch of my service to TT LLU?" and received the following reply from James.
"�TT LLU� is a retail product and although they also use the same DSLAM equipment in the exchange, their customer traffic runs over their own retail network, and they then apply capping/throttling etc. It's just the same as everyone using the BT equipment at the exchange - everyone shares this equipment regardless of the ISP you sign up with.
So, once our customers traffic leaves the exchange equipment, it is over our suppliers Network (Daisy Wholesale) as it was with BT, and therefore nothing to do with TalkTalk�s network in any way. This is known as an L2TP service.
The wholesale side of things is totally separate to "TalkTalk's" retail product, as we would never touch that. All we're doing is renting the DSLAM at the exchange like others do.
We would honestly not move you to any service that was inferior as you are on a monthly contract and could leave us easily - that is not the way we operate! The service rental fee is reduced and more usage provided which is why we can pass this on to you.
Your phone line is also unaffected, we�re not taking that away from your existing set up.
Does this help reassure you? If not, please let me know your concerns and I�ll do my best to resolve."

Well I did not feel reassured so I wrote again:
"I take it that I have been switched to LLU, which comes as a surprise considering that when I was upgraded by ADSL24 from ADSL to ADSL2+ you asked me to confirm that I wished to be upgraded. No such consent was asked, or given in this instance. If I had been asked I would have declined as I am concerned that with only one LLU supplier on my exchange my future migration options are totally limited without paying an exit penalty.
Initial reaction to the "new" service is that it is slower, is there a training period? Now that BT speedtester no longer works can you recommend an equally reliable one for LLU?"

To date I have had no further response.
Out of interest does anyone know of a reliable speed tester for LLU as I feel I am getting nowhere near the 12Mbs that I used to measure with BTspeedtest.

That's todays rant over but I suspect I will be back.

Morning.

I have the same issues..

After the stealth move, which I did not ask for, i can connect and get my normal speed, but then after a few hours/20 mins or so it drops to a ping of 1000+ms and 50-200k/sec which is [censored].. A reboot seems to sort it out.

I used to get a full solid connection all day and night, and previously was connected for 25 days straight.. never had a problem at all.

I hope this gets fixed, as I feel I have been moved to a worse service.

The only thing different since the upgrade is we're now on the Talk talk DSLAM equipment in the exchange. The rest is still the same as before. Could a change in DSLAM cause this issue that you're getting?

i presume ADSL is doing this as it is cheaper to rent the Dslams from Talk Talk than BT. what happens if someone is not in a Talk Talk area?

Still glad we got Cable and wireless network here and I had that choice use that. i would not be happy if they put happy if I was put onto Talk Talk equipment even if it was just their Dslams,

I would not want any of my money going to Talk talk.


if i do go back to ADSL after 2 years, i will go back on to the cable and wireless network if it is still around.

If you arent in a Talk Talk area then then cant put you on it. If it is cheaper for ADSL24 to rent from TT than BT, least they pass some of the savings onto us (both in terms of extra download limit and cheaper bill), alot of ISP's wouldnt

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

If you arent in a Talk Talk area then then cant put you on it.

True, Mind you I can see why they picked Talk Talk as they are now in more exchanges than any other Isp apart from BT.

If it is cheaper for ADSL24 to rent from TT than BT, least they pass some of the savings onto us (both in terms of extra download limit and cheaper bill), alot of ISP's wouldnt

Like any other Isp ADSL24 is there to make money, so people can put a roof over their head, so they are always going to try to cut costs.

It is normally cheaper on LLU anyway, I paid just under £20 a month with ADSL24 on their cable and wireless service and for unlimited usage, If I went for their BT based service I would not have got unlimited and no doubt have the same problems i had with BT.

One of the best moves I made with ADSL was going LLU even if it did take me a while to decide.

so how much extra usage have you been given? I presume that ADSL24 will now try and get other people that is using the Bt equiment onto Talk Talk, I knew it would come.

Well i was on 30GB peak usage, its now been upped to 50GB and around £2 a month cheaper bill.

Im sure if a larger ISP was to do the exact same move, we would not see any benefits like that. Much prefer smaller ISPs as they seem to look after you alot better.

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

we would not see any benefits like that. Much prefer smaller ISPs as they seem to look after you alot better.

Is ADSL24 going to pay the higher migrations charges if customers decide to move away from them? I would not exactly call that a benefit for the customer.

Yea i agree that is somewhat of an issue if a customer wishes to move away from LLU, but personally i have no plans to move so any little extras like this is a good thing

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

Well i was on 30GB peak usage, its now been upped to 50GB and around £2 a month cheaper bill.

50Gb is not bad, but it is still ont he low side, it would not take much to get past 50Gb, certainly now with services like netflik.

£2 is good as well.

Im sure if a larger ISP was to do the exact same move, we would not see any benefits like that. Much prefer smaller ISPs as they seem to look after you alot better.

Talk talk and Sky is only cheaper because they use their own equipment and also because of their size.

i agree with you about the smaller ISPs, another reason I went local.

In reply to a post by aquiss:

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

we would not see any benefits like that. Much prefer smaller ISPs as they seem to look after you alot better.

Is ADSL24 going to pay the higher migrations charges if customers decide to move away from them? I would not exactly call that a benefit for the customer.

Not fully LLU, so no migration charges, just migrate like normal. If i had migrated when I was on their Cable and wireless service, I would not have paid anything, it was only because I ceased and not migrated that I had to pay.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

In reply to a post by aquiss:

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

we would not see any benefits like that. Much prefer smaller ISPs as they seem to look after you alot better.

Is ADSL24 going to pay the higher migrations charges if customers decide to move away from them? I would not exactly call that a benefit for the customer.

Not fully LLU, so no migration charges, just migrate like normal. If i had migrated when I was on their Cable and wireless service, I would not have paid anything, it was only because I ceased and not migrated that I had to pay.

Not quite correct.

Migrating from a BT Wholesale service to another BT Wholesale service costs £13.20 (£11 + VAT) while migrating to/from an LLU requires a physical switch with the MSANs and therefore costs £48 (£40 + VAT).

50GB is peak usage (8am till midnight) weekdays, and weekends dont count towards it. So really its only 22 days a month that is counted.

One week on from my upgrade and still having major issues. Very slow speeds in the evening (<0.5Mbs) - last night it was so bad even gmail was timing out. 6:30 in the morning on the other hand I get well over 10Mbs. All this with tickets not being answered and promised return phone calls not being made makes me think it could be MAC time.

In reply to a post by JJHamster:

One week on from my upgrade and still having major issues. Very slow speeds in the evening (<0.5Mbs) - last night it was so bad even gmail was timing out. 6:30 in the morning on the other hand I get well over 10Mbs. All this with tickets not being answered and promised return phone calls not being made makes me think it could be MAC time.

What will you do? Perhaps moving to another TT reseller using SMPF (partial LLU) should not incur a migration fee?

The migration fee to 21CN WBC (if available) might be covered by larger ISP's - I was speaking to Plusnet sales a few months ago and the impression I got was that a migration fee would not be payable, however I didn't go through with the move so can not be certain...

Unless TTB have fixed that, migrating to another TTB reseller/partner usually fails due to a "system error" that started when TT merged their systems and the ex-Tiscali stuff.

Matt

In reply to a post by uno:

Unless TTB have fixed that, migrating to another TTB reseller/partner usually fails due to a "system error" that started when TT merged their systems and the ex-Tiscali stuff.

How is the "system error" issue solved then - perhaps a new physical connection or broadband ceased on the line involving £48 for a reconnection to the same TT kit?

Solved is probably not the word I'd use

We mainly see this from SMPF customers moving away from TT, ex-Tiscali, F2S and other partners etc. In these situations, the only way around it is to move to another product i.e BTW and then back over.

It means two migration costs. Some elect to just pay the one and go to BTW and stay there, others want to be back on (often) the only LLU at their exchange.

We've not had one for a few weeks so they may have fixed it but it was certainly a problem for at least 8 months prior.

Matt

Thanks for the info Matt

Seems a strange issue that. Does the DSLAM effect your speeds in anyway? Because thats all thats changed, we're still going through the same network

Different modem (on the DSLAM line card). Different firmware. Different control systems.

That's before you consider dodgy jumpers or similar when the change was made.

Ah right. My line seems to have settled down abit now i upped the target SNR. I still get a few disconnects without losing sync (not sure what would cause that?) but alot better than it was

In reply to a post by Toonshorty:

Not quite correct.

Migrating from a BT Wholesale service to another BT Wholesale service costs £13.20 (£11 + VAT) while migrating to/from an LLU requires a physical switch with the MSANs and therefore costs £48 (£40 + VAT).

Hang on a moment. Before i went onto ADsl24 Cable and wireless LLU product, I was told that if I migrated from them back to a BT type service, it would be the same as normal as it was not fully unbundled, so not cost to me.
Now you are saying that if I did migrate t would have cost me? BTW, ADSl24 did not tell me that, I was told that on these forums.


Ok it did cost me more in the end because I cease my connection not migrate.

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

50GB is peak usage (8am till midnight) weekdays, and weekends dont count towards it. So really its only 22 days a month that is counted.

Oh yes I forgot about the off peak no limit thing.


i am still glad I got the cable and wireless network here if I decide to go back to wired network. that depends on vodafone mind you. it gone pretty quiet on that score, so I have no idea if Vodafone did buy cable and wireless or not.

In reply to a post by aquiss:

If i maybe ask a question though, why have board members of ADSL24 Internet recently launched http://www.sopurple.co.uk/ (mirror image of ADSL24 site) ?

This kinda explains why:

http://purple.so/about-so-purple.php

"We came to life through the acquisition and merging of five different businesses which were ADSL24, Lawton Bailey, RedBox Media, InGame and IMS24. These have now been brought under a single umbrella group and a unified brand centred around the colour purple."

Certainly nothing changes though with ADSL24 though, we've just got more behind us now to improve further and improve our sales/marketing with some private investment

I get the impression some of your old competition are getting jealous of your success

Is your brand name going to change, or will both run together?

In the days of FTTx, which will spread rapidly soon, there does seem to be a slight anomaly.

Both will run, we're not going to just lose the ADSL24 reputation, but the name does prevent us from expanding, especially as we're not jut doing ADSL any more and "ADSL" that won't be around forever

In reply to a post by Adsl24:

Both will run, we're not going to just lose the ADSL24 reputation, but the name does prevent us from expanding, especially as we're not jut doing ADSL any more and "ADSL" that won't be around forever

I think ADSL will be around for many more years yet unless they find something else that is in the same price range.


Fibre is nice, but not everyone will want to spend extra to get more speed and there will be many people who will not be able to get fibre for many years if at all. i still know people who can't get ADSL stil never mind fibre.

4G will no doubt be expensive just like 3G is.

But anyway, hope all goes well on your expansion. you never know I may be back one day.

The recent upgrade from ADSL24 was actually very positive for me:

* DL sync increased from ~3M to 3.8M
* UL sync increased from ~600k to 950k (!)
* More importantly, stability has vastly increased and SNR margin become much more consistent.

I guess the differing reports in this thread are down to specifically what equipment the two companies have installed at your exchange, and how differently they handle your line. For me, it's been the end of a nightmare.

I'm on a ~4km line from SSALM, and had been having terrible link reliability since the 21CN "upgrades" there in 2009 - many random desyncs and often dropping when picking up a voice call too. It seemed to be related to the uplink SNR being too low - I would often watch it creep towards zero and the inevitable disconnect while the downlink was still fine. When I complained through ADSL24, all BT would do is increase the downlink SNR target, leaving me with a line slower but just as unstable. I'd long since given up on ever getting this fixed.

Before 21CN and the new BT linecards at SSALM, I had great reliability - typically several weeks between desyncs. The move from the new BT linecards to Talktalk's has been almost a return to those good old days, only with better speeds. I'm seldom getting more than two desyncs a week, and never on incoming calls. At a wild guess, I suppose the uplink Tx power from this linecard must be higher.

The one downside has been an increase in bufferbloat on the downlink. Netalyzr reckons it at around 2600ms, where previously it was a few hundred (still bad but not outrageous.) Of course, you only see this when you load up the connection. Would be nice to see it fixed though.

To be honest, I had been considering a migration away from ADSL24 - albeit not on the expectation of a better connection. This change made me reconsider.

The other things that were bugging me remain, though. Word from James about what you're going to do about bufferbloat would be appreciated (especially as it's now worse on the new linecard,) as would news of IPv6 dual stack support and the odds of getting a current version of BIND (preferably with DNSSEC enabled) on Daisy's DNS servers. Are you there, James?