Tesco ADSL - network provider?

Just been doing a bit of looking around and Tesco are offering home phone and broadband for 14 quid a month for 12 months and 2.500 clubcard points plus 3 points for every pound spent.

There's a 40 quid setup charge which is waived f you sign up for 12 months so I think it's full LLU.

Anyone know who the network provider is?

In reply to a post by techguy:

Just been doing a bit of looking around and Tesco are offering home phone and broadband for 14 quid a month for 12 months and 2.500 clubcard points plus 3 points for every pound spent.

There's a 40 quid setup charge which is waived f you sign up for 12 months so I think it's full LLU.

Anyone know who the network provider is?

Cable and wireless.

The network is getting on in age now, but it seems to do the job. The one problem I found is the SNr is fixed at 10db, but with my old netgear with 3rd party firmware I could change that.

That was with ADSl24 on the same network, but not fully unbundled, but I expect it would be the same with Tesco,

i had a pretty long line, well I still got a pretty long line, but it is not used any more and I found the C&W network worked ok.

The official default is 9db but there are changes afoot with C&W which means the SNR may change within the first few days.

As below:

Cable&Wireless Worldwide have been working to deliver Dynamic Line Management (DLM) into the LLU network to help improve the service that end users receive. The delivery of DLM is planned over a number of phases The first of which will be looking solely at newly provisioned circuits on the LLU network.

This introduction may impact the service an end user receives in the first few days of service (once synchronisation has been achieved by connecting a CPE) as the system works through the process of assigning the optimal port profile. End users may see variations in speed and resynchronisation events during this period. We expect in most cases that the process should only take a couple of days to stabilise however CWW suggest that any support calls made by end users in the first 10 days of service, related to speed fluctuations and resynchronising events should be treated as an artefact of DLM performing its service optimisation.

Can be disabled upon request and we've already seen this affect circuits in different ways - one being capped at 4Mb from 8.6Mb in 2 days was the most noticeable.

Matt

Why are they doing that? You get a decent network and they muck it up, DLM is a pain in the neck. Ok so it can be switched off, but how will the ISp tell people this?

Thanks for that, I will have to tell my mate about it, saying that he is on a a pretty short line, good quality and get a good speed, so DLM may be ok for him.

Have Vodafone grabbed hold of it yet? If they have then that may be why it is being mucked about with. It was certainly the best wired network I been on and seen.

Thanks for all the responses.

Just rsn s check on their site and it says they can't offer broadband only because of a capaciy issue but can offer phone and BB (which makes me think its a full unbundle as I said earlier)

However when I go to proceed with the order I can tick either broadband or home phone, if I tick broadband a MAC is requested, if I tick homephone its not so I'm a little confused though I do understand that for a full unbundle a MAC isn't needed so that's probably why.

I'll give them a call tomorrow although to throw another spanner in the works I'm quite happy with the connection performance since I moved to Freeola who are an Entanet reseller and who have a POP about 3 miles from me as latency between my router and their edge router is 10 ms so part of me thinks I'd be mad to move.

Edited by techguy (Sun 07-Oct-12 18:57:56)

As to why, the PDF gives the corporate reasoning and is listed in the open document at https://wdslportal.cw.com/support/DLMComms.pdf

Matt

It would also appear that if I wanted to move the line back to a BT based service in the future I'd have to pay the full £130 connection charge?

Possibly, if you go full MPF (phone and BB).

Some providers will do it free, some will charge up to that amount, some a higher amount.

Matt

Ouch

Might stick where I am for now, as I say it seems somewhat more responsive and my line rental is still with Zen so I know I can quickly get help if anything goes awry with the line.

In all honesty now I prefer to stay with smaller companies as from experience the service and support tends to be better.

Thanks for the info Matt, much appreciated.

Have you considered just BB only via a MAC, which you said you could tick? That's not Full LLU (MPF).

That is my preferred option but as I said an availability check says only phone and BB available so I suspect I won't achieve that much of a saving which is what I am trying to achieve.

I'll phone them tomorrow and see what their sales say.

Edited by techguy (Sun 07-Oct-12 21:59:26)

In reply to a post by uno:

As to why, the PDF gives the corporate reasoning and is listed in the open document at https://wdslportal.cw.com/support/DLMComms.pdf

Matt

Umm, Maybe moving from a fixed wired service when I did was a good thing, now that Cable and wireless is using DLM, that means they all are.

DLM is a pain and in my opinion makes things worse. I had a stable and ok speed service from the C&W network, if they stuck DLM on i would have lost the speed i had and i doubt it would make it more stable.

why do these companies think that a automated system does a better job than a manual system?

I certainly think I made the right choice in getting rid of fixed line broadband.

In reply to a post by techguy:

It would also appear that if I wanted to move the line back to a BT based service in the future I'd have to pay the full £130 connection charge?

BT will no doubt keep sending you letters giving you free connection if you go back with them. I get them now and again. The last one offering me FTTC and they would even connect my phone line back up for free.

Nope, not going to happen.

It wouldn't have affected you anyway, at least for the moment, as it is for new provisions.

They will likely roll out nationally but you can disable it by request. DLM isn't always a pain, there are some lines where it really does help.

why do these companies think that a automated system does a better job than a manual system?

Because not every user knows about SNR margins, interleaving and so on. I'm sure we're not the only ones to have customers come to us to say my line is unstable, why.. etc. DLM does help with those issues where the default profile isn't good enough.

You'd be surprised how many customers don't tell you that they're having problems and just accept it as the norm.

Matt

There's one ISP that apparently tells its customers they have a problem before the customer knows.

Not many people can afford them .

Yes but doesn't that ISP use BT products for some of their services - which use DLM?

Additionally, you'll find that there is more than one provider that use the FireBrick devices which they sell to do similar things - which is exactly why we have one.

The point I was making is that DLM isn't always a complete evil thing to have... and could even resolve faults that the customer, or as in your example, the ISP might not even detect.

Matt

Edited by uno (Sun 07-Oct-12 23:21:14)

In reply to a post by uno:

It wouldn't have affected you anyway, at least for the moment, as it is for new provisions.

They will likely roll out nationally but you can disable it by request. DLM isn't always a pain, there are some lines where it really does help.

i will have to send a email or phone my mate and tell him, but as you said it will not affect him yet, saying that he is considering going to Sky FTTC when it eventually gets to him, not for the speed so much as he gets a pretty decent speed, but he thinks FTTc will be more reliable as it don't use the old cables.

I so far have seen more people have problems with DLM, be it BT version, sky and Talk Talk.

the reason is because their lines are pretty poor and the DLM makes a muck up of it.

If I had DLM on my line I would have ended up with about 2Mb just like I did with BT.

Because not every user knows about SNR margins, interleaving and so on. I'm sure we're not the only ones to have customers come to us to say my line is unstable, why.. etc. DLM does help with those issues where the default profile isn't good enough.

True, but then that is what you are there for

You'd be surprised how many customers don't tell you that they're having problems and just accept it as the norm.

No i am not, that is why so many people stick with Talk Talk and Bt even if they get a naff connection because they thin it is the norm.

i know of a few people who used Talk Talk and think that is the best they will get and yet after talking them into going for another service, they are shocked at the difference.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

i know of a few people who used Talk Talk and think that is the best they will get and yet after talking them into going for another service, they are shocked at the difference.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It took me and a few others over a year to persuade you to go LLU from your BT Wholesale based service. I have rarely met anyone so "doubting Thomas".

And now you preach the gospel!

The bottom line of my sig applied to that post .

As for DLMs, the current WBC one is far removed fom what zyborg experienced. But despite his having been told this several times, it bounces off the scar tissue.

I think the WBC DLM on both ADSLx and FTTC has very little wrong with it. What the C & W one will be like none of us know, but I think a little apprehension is in order .

O2/Be seemed to have it fairly well sussed, but they turned it off after about 3 days.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

i know of a few people who used Talk Talk and think that is the best they will get and yet after talking them into going for another service, they are shocked at the difference.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It took me and a few others over a year to persuade you to go LLU from your BT Wholesale based service. I have rarely met anyone so "doubting Thomas".

And now you preach the gospel!

it did not take a year or anywhere close to it, it did take a while but only because I was worried about LLU. while yo did help and I was grateful it was a mate of mine who went for the Cable and wireless network with Vivacitie that got me to change in the end.

I do admit, it normally takes me a while to decide on things. I weigh up all the pros and cons.

but if I had the quality of broadband these people have got, one is not even getting a megabit, then I would have moved quicker, as it was, I know sometimes mine was bad, but it was a bti more than a megabit.

It only took me 2 weeks to decide to move to allpay, saying that I did have a visit from someone who was here for a hour explaining different things.

I am not going to lie and say things are perfect, but it is certainly better than any ADSL service I have had, not because of the providers, not all of them anyway, but because my phone line is so long. Hopefully when Allpay do the work they are going to do tomorrow morning, things will get even better.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The bottom line of my sig applied to that post .

As for DLMs, the current WBC one is far removed fom what zyborg experienced. But despite his having been told this several times, it bounces off the scar tissue.

I think the WBC DLM on both ADSLx and FTTC has very little wrong with it. What the C & W one will be like none of us know, but I think a little apprehension is in order .

O2/Be seemed to have it fairly well sussed, but they turned it off after about 3 days.

If as you said the WBC DLM is good on ADSL then why did I have so much problem with it? and it was worse when Bt changed me to their so called new ADSL2+ service.

Still, I don't have to worry about it now,

Not better, just a lot cheaper

I definitely don't use BT Retail now.

I used a BT Internet dial up account years ago when they used to have the 0844 1p/min dial up and then I used a certaom subsidiary.

I;m a little reluctant to jump from a BT Wholesle connected line to LLU because BTW still have lions share of ISPs and thus migration is simple.

As for the ISP that is known for its indepth line monitoring and diagnostics I have definitely looked at them but franjly for what they charge for their LLU offering I could dispense with ADSL and get an FTTP connection.

Looks like they've rejigged the site and can now sign up for BB only (no clubcard points bonanza though)

£40 charge for monthly rolling contract (waived for 12 month contracts) which prob means if I moved away again after 12 months I'd have to pay a BTW ADSL reactivation fee?

And I've just found the two words guaranteed to put me off an ISP based on previous experience, Traffic Management.

I notice that Phone coop are offering a similar deal so have made some enquiries, I am already a coop member so it makes sense to get a bit back.

Have asked them this but does anyone know who they use for backhaul and IP network services (I think it used to be a combination or TalkTalk and Murphx which is now Daisy as I understand it)

Hoping its not TalkTalk end to end.

If you aren't in an LLU area, what provider do Tesco use?

Ta

BT Wholesale via Cable & Wireless

Which doesn't sound like a pleasant place to be .

@Dw2k. Don't go there.

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 08-Nov-12 17:15:58)

Heh, thanks. Avoiding

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

BT Wholesale via Cable & Wireless

That is a strange why to do things? i thought Tesco would go directly to BT wholesale, not have cable and wireless as a go between.

All the LLU ISPs, including C & W in that, have good LLU products, but their capacity provision per customer, (which is how these things are budgeted), on their "out of area" BT Wholesale services is woeful. It costs them a huge amount more than their LLU does, and my belief is they only provide it at all in order to claim to be a nationwide ISP.

Have you looked at John Lewis broadband? That is through Plusnet, but in some respects seems to be a good deal even compared to Plusnet itself . Your phone line has to be with them.

In reply to a post by uno:

Yes but doesn't that ISP use BT products for some of their services - which use DLM?

Additionally, you'll find that there is more than one provider that use the FireBrick devices which they sell to do similar things - which is exactly why we have one.

The point I was making is that DLM isn't always a complete evil thing to have... and could even resolve faults that the customer, or as in your example, the ISP might not even detect.

Matt

Swings & roundabouts really,

But in some situations DLM doesn't work in the end users favour, Where you have a customer who uses the connection for things like online gaming and voice coms ,and needs the lowest possible latency and wants the most out of it, In return for what they are paying each month

Regardless of if they experience some random issues from time to time, where DLM would raise snr values above what level would really be needed and apply the masking filter interleave and INP in a bid to hide things,Which may be ok for some who are blissfully unaware

when in reality BT openreach should be being pro active regarding broadband faults on it's network , to simply say they do not give any guarantees regarding broadband services, isn't on because they are quite happy to sell access to their outdated not fit for purpose copper networks aren't they
Thing is are they ever going to change their stance, even with FTTC/H connections ?

Edited by tommy45 (Fri 09-Nov-12 01:48:34)

They buy a product from Cable & Wireless, which is to manage and deliver their broadband.

Even Virgin Media use C&W where they don't have their own network, running an ADSL service is not just managing subscriptions.

Vivaciti went live today via O2.

Speed bump up to 3.6 so am more confident about moving to Xilo who I really do want to go with, MAC requested from Vivaciti

Are you trying out a number of ISPs?

[puzzled]
In that case why did you go to vivaciti? And why not stay and see how it goes?

In particular, I haven't re-read the whole thread, but what about the noise margin settings. Wrt to that, would xilo be O2 Wholesale or C & W?

Let me explain,

about 3 years ago I tried out O2's broadband service as had been a happy customer of their mobile service for a while.

Speeds were cracking but the line became extremely unstable so moved back to a BT based service.

Last year I decided to see if I could get more speed out of the line so asked Zen if I could get my socket replaced with an NTE5 with the bellwire choke which BT did for free.

There's also been a question of partial homeworking at work so earlier this year I plugged a phone into the line to check whether it was working as intended to use it as a dedicated voice line for work, no dial tone.

Reported to Zen who I also pay the line rental to and they got a BT engineer out to fix it who found some rotten copper he cut away and then sealed it.

Speeds have been great since but running alongside all this I've been using Netflix quite a bit so thought I'd look at the unlimited offerings as was going through my Zen allowance quite quickly.

Firstly moved to Freeola who did unlimited off peak, then found Xilo and Vivaciti did unlimited.

I was a tad apprehensive about going direct to Xilo due to previous problems with O2 based ADSL and initial cost would have come to 65 quid so went to Vivaciti to check it worked as they had free setup to check it works first which it does.

Xilo did also say they can provide Enhanced care which means they can raise issues with O2 even over a holiday period but Vivaciti say they cannot.

This is now important as it's looking likely I'll be using VPN over Christmas to work but if it fails I have to go into the office which I don't really want to do.

Now do you understand?

No problem. It just seemed rather odd in the previous post .

I hope all goes well.

So do I, the DSL is much more stable, Vivaciti have been quite honest and said they can't provide it on the product I chose.

Matt from Uno/Xilo (shouldn't that be due, boom boom) has been very helpful in answering my questions both here and on their own forums.

If the trial works as planned I might be able to work from home a day or two a week and pick up some overtime too.

Someone has not been very honest with you as Enhanced care IS NOT and option from O2 and just so I make sure that the information is not correct from us I have just checked the pricing manual and Enhanced care IS NOT listed as an option.
It is through a BT based service, as well as a TBB service, but not through O2 wholesale or C&W!