obviously i'm being over optimistic 🙈🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂

Basically I agreed with you in my post about the possibility of the scope being widened. As per the cartoon link posted later than that.

To add to that, what are the possibilities of an Openreach drop wire and premises' socket ever being required again once an AltNet fibre line has been installed?

Of course a change of ownership of the property might require one but even then I don't think it's likely.

Great to hear that your experience of brsk support was so good. I'm looking forward to my upcoming installation and that has been one of my "fingers crossed" concerns.

Of course one swallow doesn't make a summer.

In reply to a post by pluralist:

To add to that, what are the possibilities of an Openreach drop wire and premises' socket ever being required again once an AltNet fibre line has been installed?

Two of my friends have had to have OR reinstall copper wiring in properties where previous occupants have cut back and erased all visible trace of former main socket in the home; having switched to cable. (Cable installers didn't do this, it was diagonally across the entire building, rooms away). As none of us have OR telegraph poles, this was a longer installation ; but I suspect may have helped one of my friends get much better FTTC/VDSL than he would have had otherwise.

These are late 60s, or early 70s built parts of town, and likely the OR cabling is D.I.G. and it will be interesting to see when FTTP arrives what OR can do in budget; as there are two AltNets in town, one of which has installed a lot of poles... plus Virgin Media whom have 1990s era ducts.

By cable, do you mean VM? I'm not aware of any other cable company.

I wonder if in areas like your friends' BT/EE/Plusnet might at some time bite the bullet of being just another competitor to the "smaller" AltNets and start to use the Wholesaling AltNetworks on commercial grounds rather than fork out to install FTTP to areas that already have plenty of it.

As you will be aware, several of the reputable long-term Openreach using CPs are also using those wholesalers.

The more time rolls on the more necessary that might become.

In reply to a post by pluralist:

By cable, do you mean VM? I'm not aware of any other cable company.

The technology installed by the approx 30 companies in the 1990s. Wight Cable may still exist separately, but the others are, as you say, now merged over time into VMED O2 UK Ltd trading as Virgin Media O2.

I wonder if in areas like your friends' BT/EE/Plusnet might at some time bite the bullet of being just another competitor to the "smaller" AltNets and start to use the Wholesaling AltNetworks on commercial grounds rather than fork out to install FTTP to areas that already have plenty of it.

Always possible, but I don't see it for years. Until Virgin goes wholesale over Coax (or FTTP) under their NetCo plans, the existing AltNets have cherry picked properties, and don't wholesale. (No CityFibre here).

As you will be aware, several of the reputable long-term Openreach using CPs are also using those wholesalers. The more time rolls on the more necessary that might become.

I believe even the big Sky ISP is now using non OR connectivity.

In reply to a post by pluralist:

I wonder if in areas like your friends' BT/EE/Plusnet might at some time bite the bullet of being just another competitor to the "smaller" AltNets and start to use the Wholesaling AltNetworks on commercial grounds

IMO, not a chance.

Firstly, BT are not going to grace the altnets with any appearance of being "good enough" by using them. Nor are they going to engage in labyrinthine technical integrations to pull traffic from small wholesale networks, nor build the contractual and installation/support processes. They expect other operators to use *their* processes.

Secondly, there's only one wholesaling altnet of any scale, and that's Cityfibre. Maybe Virgin will get there one day, but they haven't even started. The minnows are just not worth dealing with.

But most importantly, BT have told investors they plan to deliver 85% OR FTTP coverage by end 2026 and ~95% coverage by 2030. There's absolutely no point in BT retail brands integrating with other networks when at *best* they could pick up 5% extra users; and in reality, that 5% not covered by OR is also the least likely to have been cherry-picked by altnets.

VM started as loads of minnows. (Also it's nothing to do with Virgin itself except for licensing the name).

Several altnets in the UK sell wholesale, including:
CityFibre: A major altnet wholesaler that sells services to ISPs, including Sky
Netomnia: An altnet that sells services to ISPs
Community Fibre: An altnet that plays a retailer-wholesaler role
Jurassic Fibre: An altnet that plays a retailer-wholesaler role
Giganet: An altnet that plays a retailer-wholesaler role
Pulse Fibre: An altnet that joined The Fibre Cafe's connectivity aggregation platform and went wholesale

That's from:Altnets offering wholesaling. Note also the interesting Fibre Cafe link in there looks like an interesting idea but leads to a mysterious underlying business. I've spent twenty minutes or so delving and still haven't found an active Limited Company. Though I did find some names to search for later on Companies House.

brsk itself, the topic of this thread, is merging with Netomnia. Continuing trading under its own name as far as I know. Both are minnows of course.

In reply to a post by pluralist:

VM started as loads of minnows. (Also it's nothing to do with Virgin itself except for licensing the name).

It all ended with series of prior regional cable co. consolidations over a period of years (particular around the late 90's implosion of the telecoms world) - in the months prior to Virgin Media formation it was really a merger between two already large cable companies namely ntl and Telewest that formed the origins of what we know today as Virgin Media - itself a merger a few months later between ntl:Telewest and Virgin Mobile - almost 18 years ago now. Ancient history.

In reply to a post by pluralist:

Several altnets in the UK sell wholesale

Yes they do, but I said *at scale*. The next one is Community Fibre, and that has only ~5% UK coverage.

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2024/08/top-20...

Edited by candlerb (Fri 15-Nov-24 16:13:42)