James Bailey

does he still exist at PlusNet? I have PM'ed him over two weeks ago (and again yesterday) on the Plus Net Forum but have had no reply, and no read of the PM yet.

He's still around, has been responding over on the Metronet forum.

And ignoring PM's from Plusnet customers apparently.

Is there an obligation for Plusnet staff to respond to PM's? The official way to communicate with Plusnet is via the telephone support line (if you can get through!) or the ticket - sorry - questions system.

In reply to:

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Is there an obligation for Plusnet staff to respond to PM's?

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I doubt it, but James is generally very good.

Unless he's being leant on from above, maybe.

A PM on here, no. But on PlusNet's own forum, I would suggest they should. That being said the system is there for users and is not an official channel. I have raised a ticket instead now.

PlusNet deserve bankruptcy.

The Plusnet management lost the plot six months ago so the company is in decline.

Plusnet want to go in to areas that they can not control, it's bringing them down!

Yes i am an ex-customer and they need to get their throttling sorted!

Edited by deleted (Thu 02-Nov-06 13:31:54)

> PlusNet deserve bankruptcy.

Aside from the lack of constructive comment in that post, their users certainly don't deserve it... Whether you think shareholders do is another matter.. Can we try and focus on useful comments.


seb

Nah, they won't go bankrupt. Plusnet are lucky, they will be bought out by one of the big boys. It's the small isp's that are facing a long cold Winter.

They still deserve it. They are an utter disgrace to the ISP industry.

I agree, their users have suffered enough. But companies so completely incapable of running their business in anything approaching an acceptable manner deserve to go down.

Also, if they did go bust then perhaps those users tied into dodgy 5 year contracts could be set free.

I supose it would never enter your head that there maybe many thousands of customers that are happy with the service they get from PlusNet?

a thread about where James Bailey is commands the most views on ADSLG in ages, something is seriously wrong.

Plusnets service is dire, George you know and so do I they need to sort this out now and once sorted keep it sorted

Edited by soundsystem (Sun 05-Nov-06 01:01:30)

"Plusnets service is dire"

I really wish that some people would actually define "dire"

Last night 4th Nov between the hours of 1900-0130 (which is mostly peak time you will note) I was in video conference with 3 people+looking through an Australian astronomers telescope via web-cam,downloading data in real time (via P2P) from a radio telescope also in Australia and had an American radio station playing in the background (streaming media.),and yes in amongst all that I did check and respond to emails,and a bit of browsing.

I personally would say that was pretty good especially at "peak time,but cannot wait for the time comes when as you say Plusnet get it "sorted" just imagine what I will be able to do then.

Has it not occurred to you that PlusNet unthrottle the lines of a select band of evangelists? They did it for kitz, and they could be doing it for you, sunhouse.

Simon

in the very unlikely event of that happening in my case; but who am I to stand in the way of yet another conspiracy theory.My speed readings over the last few days both "peak period" and "off peek"

05-11-2006 07:45:06 2678.3
05-11-2006 07:44:07 2320.9
05-11-2006 07:43:46 1715
01-11-2006 19:48:27 1740.5
31-10-2006 18:47:57 1818.2
30-10-2006 19:49:27 2996.5
30-10-2006 19:48:35 1475.2

Would seem to indicate they are not doing a very good job.... if that is indeed what they are meant; in your opinion to be doing.But what I need to do gets done so I personally don't care one way or another.

By the way you forgot to define "dire" for me so to help you out a bit

Main Entry: dire
Pronunciation: 'dI(-&)r
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): dir

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me how you are obviously getting a working connection when the plusnet members forum is swimming in people with all sorts of issues. I'm not big on conspiracy theories myself but there's obviously some difference between the service you experience and what others appear to be receiving.

"but there's obviously some difference between the service you experience and what others appear to be receiving. "

In that respect I do consider myself fortunate,and am unable to work out myself why I don't seem to be getting many problems........ but then again there must be a lot of customers that are also finding that Plusnet meets their needs.But to put things into some perspective I am getting what I consider to be an adequate service for my needs,as opposed to a great service if you take my speed readings that I posted in my last reply and compare them to the output from my router you may see what I mean.

DSL Status : Up
DSL Modulation Mode : GDMT
DSL Path Mode : INTERLEAVED
Downstream Rate : 7616 Kbps
Upstream Rate : 832 Kbps
Downstream Margin : 10 db
Upstream Margin : 14 db
Downstream Line Attenuation : 13
Upstream Line Attenuation : 8
Downstream Transmit Power : 0
Upstream Transmit Power :

When you read those: then the results of the speed tests are'nt really that great in fact some may say quite pathetic...... but they get the job done as far as I am concerned therefore I see no real reason to worry.I suppose I could join the "my speeds are down" congregation and spend more time in the forum complaining about it but reliability of connection is more imprortant to me personally than brute speed.

None of PlusNet's customers are in a "dodgy 5 year contract". Some of them selected the option to defer payment of the connection fee and hardware over 5 years. They may not have done this knowingly, but in any case they were still in a 1 month or 1 year contract.

They could have chosen to pay the connection fee and for the hardware in full up front. Then they would have nothing to pay when they left. By taking the You Stay We Pay option they will save something even if they leave during the first year because the payment would have been deferred for some months. If they stayed for more than a year then they had less to pay. This may not be the best deal on the market, but there is nothing dodgy about it except that maybe the terms were not as clear as they could have been.

Perhaps it has a lot to do with the equipment the customers are using, their line quality and their set up which of course none of which ANY ISP can control?

Kitz does not have any throttling removed from her line (just ask her about the speed problems that she has been reporting lately). Comments like that really show how much you really know Simon and could even be considered libellous.

Iam

How sad!!!

So you didn't know that PlusNet gave her a free upgrade from 50:1 to 20:1 contention to stop her complaining in the forums?

Simon

"Clutching at straws" is a saying that springs to mind here..... just your idea or do you have some evidence for that? Last time I looked it had not improved any thing much..... but I had better find out now if I am on 20:1 instead of 50:1 contention or do you already know that?

Simon .. you have no manners, courtesy or respect for other folk posting here do you???

Slag people off for what point??? Kitz has helped more folk than you ever will inspite of your campaign against PN and that is a FACT.

Edited by onlyme2 (Sun 05-Nov-06 13:10:49)

Get your facts right. I haven't slagged kitz off - so why do you try to stir up trouble using nothing more than your imagination?

Simon

Of course I have some evidence for it. You should know better....

Simon

Where is it then?

For it to mean anything, I would have to tell you who it came from and I can't do that.

Simon

Not exactly the reply I was expecting.... but close enough. Say what you like but not have anything tangible to back it with,true to form I guess

Its very easy to make up a statement and say you have evidence to back it up, but you cant say what the evidence was and who it comes from. Anyone could do that. Stop causing trouble.

If you cannot see it then your way too far gone ...

As per form Simon uses Hearsay as FACT. Just another piece of nastiness.

Edited by onlyme2 (Sun 05-Nov-06 13:55:39)

A 20:1 connection (or whatever BT now calls them) does not remove throttling. All it does is change the BT profile to reduce contention within the BT network (something which Kitz has been caught out with a number of times now).

This is a pointless discussion. None of you are saying what account you are on or how you use the net

Last time I looked PAYG and business accounts were basically unshaped. Premier was heavily shaped and plus only fit for grannies (just a turn of phrase, no insult intended to grannies).

So anyone on PAYG should be able to say what's the problem. Anyone on Premier should at least expect reasonable browsing and email. Anyone on premier getting good p2p or usenet during peak hours can say PN is great.

I am on Premier and my usenet is usually around 1-2Mb peak and line speed off peak. This speed is fine for me and still allows me to download loads each month if I wish.

"None of you are saying what account you are on or how you use the net"

Did you not read my first post in this thread..... that gives you pretty good idea as to how I use the 'net.As to the account I am on it is Premier 2

In which case I would recommend Kitz logs a legal complaint against you, as the only way that information could be obtained is via illegal methods.

Ian

Whoever gave Simon that information may or may not have done anything illegal, I find your assuming it must be Simon to blame rather indicative of a biased viewpoint...

Not neccessarily Simon but to give out any information like that would involve someone getting personal information and disclosing it along the line somewhere. That is pretty much illegal in my knowledge of the law.

Ian

That is obviously untrue. There are a number of people at PlusNet who would be privy to the information as a matter of routine. And if one of them should choose to reveal it to someone outside the company, that would be a matter for PlusNet to sort out internally. In that event, kitz might have a complaint against PlusNet - but she presumably doesn't since this is not the first time that this particular matter has been discussed here.

Simon

Your post said:

I would recommend Kitz logs a legal complaint against you

My bold. Perhaps you should preview your posts a little more carefully.

In reply to:

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Not neccessarily Simon but to give out any information like that would involve someone getting personal information and disclosing it along the line somewhere. That is pretty much illegal in my knowledge of the law.

Ian

Plusnet UserGroup member

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A bit like emailing 12000 customers details you mean

Did you not say you would not be posting in here any more, as you have highlighted this and that etc. This was 6 months back and here you still are.

At first i could see your point but now your going over and over the same stuff , its looking more like your totally obsessed over an ISP

Get a grip man , move on and do something more constructive with your life. Instead of getting all bitter and twisted about an ISP. Most people get like that over Affairs divorce etc .

You may say your not bitter and twisted and obsessed, but from where im sitting it really looks like it from here and all credibility you had is fast diminishing. You should of quit while you were ahead .

Edited by deleted (Sun 05-Nov-06 16:41:21)

Dusty do you support a football team?

To disclose such information about his sources, I would hope Simon would need a legal request to be made. That would involve complaining to a legal authority.

Ian

>>> Has it not occurred to you that PlusNet unthrottle the lines of a select band of evangelists? They did it for kitz, and they could be doing it for you, sunhouse.

>>> So you didn't know that PlusNet gave her a free upgrade from 50:1 to 20:1 contention to stop her complaining in the forums?


1. In any case throttling due to PlusNets profile and problems experienced at an exchange level are two very different things.
There are some things that PN have control over.. and somethings that they dont.
Even if they had given me this alleged free 20:1 upgrade just how would this help with any PlusNet throttling on my account.
By making this accusation it just shows how little you actually know about how things work and how desperate you have become to make any allegations whether true or not.

2. It would be interesting to know how you supposedly have access to personal information about my line.
Since you are claiming to have information that specifically relates to me or my account would this be subject to the DPA.

3. I find it ironic that you are prepared to disclose supposed information about my personal account on a public forum. You know how much I pay each month do you?
You only have half the story Simon not the full facts, you are now making assumptions on guesses and half truths without knowing what really went on.
This thread has now degenerated into making allegations against individuals.

But go ahead with the conspiracy theories.. and rumour mongering .. you seem to do what you like in these forums anyhow.
Some of the theories in this forum of late have had more spin attached to them than Ive seen from PlusNet lately.

You have no idea of what I do... nor the hours that I put in to actually trying to help people.
but in your obsessiveness to find something to discredit PlusNet that you now think its perfectly fine to bring someone who has no association with PlusNet other than to actually try and help people by trying to discredit them too.

I would say leave me out of your petty arguments with PlusNet... but you wont.. because you will try latch on to anything to do with PlusNet and try and discredit them too.

I do what I do because I have a genuine desire to help people.. which I do.
You maintain what you do helps people.. my tally of the people Ive helped runs into so many that I couldnt even begin to list them all.. I'm talking a few thousand over the years.
Ive never been nasty or rude to anyone on the forums, Ive never even been one of the "PlusNet are wonderful" brigade, Ive always stuck to the facts. I'm prepared to challenge PN over many things.
What you seem to forget Simon is that I was on these forums long before you telling people to downgrade to the cheaper accounts.

The difference is Simon I dont go shouting about all the things I have done to help these people, to have my name in flashing lights or get a pat on the back in this forum.

By trying to drag me into this you have sunk to a new low and only goes to show how petty your vendetta has become.
Nor am I going to spend hours on this forum defending myself - I could give you very valid reason why I'm not around as much - but I'm not going to go feed personal information on to a forum that takes any and every opportunity to bring down anyone or anything that in anyway has any association with PlusNet.

I could give you facts to support the allegations you are making are unjustified and that you really dont know what happened over a year ago. But I'm not into playing petty games of one upmanship.

You accused someone else in this thread of stirring..
well Ive no idea what the heck it is you think you are trying to do.
I'll let people make up their own minds.

In reply to:

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To disclose such information about his sources, I would hope Simon would need a legal request to be made.

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But he has already declined to disclose his sources in response to a casual request. What's your problem?


edit- added "in response to...." phrase

Edited by billford (Sun 05-Nov-06 16:25:10)

BUT He choose to make allegations regarding Kitz .. a private individual ..(allegedly on information he says he has from someone else) ... his standards are really slipping. But then his hangers on will try and support him no matter what.

In reply to:

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BUT He choose to make allegations regarding Kitz

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The allegations were about the behaviour of Plusnet, not Kitz... though I'll concede Kitz was an "innocent bystander".

I run one

Mini me

He had no right to do so but doesnt see that.

Good to hear from you kitz. All I will say is that my post (unlike yours) made no personal accusations whatsoever. Why are you so keen to defend yourself/attack me when no-one has attacked you?

If you would re-read my post, it states that PlusNet gave you a free upgrade to 20:1 (internal contention as it was then labelled) from 50:1 at a time when you were making negative posts about your connection in the forums.

My post did not state that you asked for the free upgrade - nor did it level any other accusation at you. So why invent them?

Not for the sake of creating a smokescreen, I hope?

In any event, the discussions here would be all the shorter if people read posts properly and didn't make up stuff to suit some agenda.

Simon

Possibly no right to mention Kitz (although as I said, he didn't accuse her of anything), but the comment about Plusnet was perfectly reasonable if he has the evidence he claims.

The fact that he can't show it to you is your problem, not his- you are at liberty to believe him or not.

Funny in it . People that shout here about this that and how bad PN are to their customers, are the ones who say i hope they go bust . Leaving people like me in the doo doo and people in employment with mortgages etc with out a job . For why , because elk like your self are not happy over a flipping isp, some of you lot are consumed by your own selfish ignorance and arrogance

It's the "free" bit that we are taking offence to Simon. If Kitz has a 20:1 connection how would you know how she paid for it?

Ian

no its his problem ..he made the statement which he cannot back up like a lot of things that get said here.

In reply to:

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which he cannot back up

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Sorry, but that's your assumption. If he has evidence then he can back it up, but is prevented from doing so by the requirements of confidentiality.

If a member of the PUG says something, but cannot back it up on this forum because of an NDA, do you accuse them in the same way that you are accusing Simon?

You appear to have a very short memory your original post said and I quote

"Has it not occurred to you that PlusNet unthrottle the lines of a select band of evangelists? They did it for kitz, and they could be doing it for you, sunhouse. "

which is far removed from an upgrade to 20:1 contention ratio which you conveniently changed to..... and what was the thinking behind "select band of evangelists?" not exactly what could be referred to as a friendly greeting.

>>> it states that PlusNet gave you a free upgrade to 20:1 (internal contention as it was then labelled) from 50:1 at a time when you were making negative posts about your connection in the forums.

I'll try make this short for you then.

Duff info... not in pocession of all the facts.

Im on Premier which is 30:1
Aside from ellacoya testing Ive never been on either 50:1 (BB+) or 20:1 (Business).

My complaints were all about BT - I had a thread in the BT Wholesale section of these forums that ran for weeks about the problems I was experiencing with BT.
My gripe wasnt with PN - I made it very clear at the time that it was a BT problem.

He cannot back it up.. full and simple. The "IF" speaks volumes. Simon says things for his own purposes.

In reply to:

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Simon says things for his own purposes.

---

Can you back that accusation up?

Edited by billford (Sun 05-Nov-06 19:49:32)

Well said Dusty, i've stayed away from posting on here because it's just a waste of time now. It's just full of scary people with suspect mental states like pr100 and some idnet users like billford sticking their beaks in for no real reason. Don't people know the way to their own ISP's forums on here?, i'd be happy to supply a link for them.

PlusNet will be around a fair while yet i hope, and for the price it's super value considering the unlimited off-peak usage and webtools ect. Long may PN reign!.

In reply to:

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some idnet users like billford sticking their beaks in for no real reason

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The fact that my main ISP is IDNet doesn't preclude me from being a Plusnet customer in other areas, which I am.

Perhaps you should verify your facts before allowing your jaw to flap in such an undignified fashion.

So was James Baileys post breaching DPA on here about a customers details, so was Plusnets massive DPA blunder.

One things for sure. if Kitz and other members of PUG have been receiving some sort of reward from Plusnet, then they are pretty naive to think its not going to come out one way or another.

I wouldn't like to be in their shoes when it does, considering they have point blank denied it time after time.

What about some of Plusnet's ridiculous allegations to Simon about holding thousands of Plusnet customers details with intent to cause trouble, made a right fool of them selves there, didn't they

Especially in light of the fact Plusnet shortly afterwards released all that detail and more themselves

You coulden't make this stuff up!

Sure, they should have went through the mass of ambiguous small print with a fine tooth comb, its all their fault is the usual cry from the die hard Plusnet supporters.

After all we all go through small print with a fine tooth comb, don't we?

In reality, you just don't expect something shocking like that to be lurking there ... Thank God I got out from this crummy ISP

A Plusnet customer in other areas?, what, you mean your metronet email address you keep active? pffft please. You just like to stick your oar in and get your post count up because you have nothing better to do.

The way you people on substandard ISPs talk about throttling as if it's in any way acceptable. No wonder dreadful ISPs like PN and Tiscali continue to get away with murder.

Why should I be concerned with my post count?

And how much do you consider that a customer should be spending with your beloved Plusnet in order to be permitted to voice an opinion here?

Edited by billford (Mon 06-Nov-06 00:12:55)

Not to mention the frequent service problems including totally unacceptable email. I know coz that's why I left.

I think Simon has finally shown his true colours with this post about Kitz. To make accusations like that without any evidence to back them up is disgraceful. Hopefully people will now see him for the stirring rumour monger he really is and disregard anything he might say in the future.

Remind me (with links, please), just what did Simon accuse Kitz of doing?

You see ..you take Simons post as the truth ignoring what has been said. Now that is typical .. muddy the waters as much as you like but you will see what he alleges has been denied and you still push on with it.

Anything to get at PN no matter who you go through to do it and who you you taint in the process.

A PR man always says things for his own purposes .. Simon has a slant on everything PN.

Lots of accusations with nothing to back them up....

/ shakes head sadly

And bringing a private individual into his slant on things is right??? This has nothing to do with PN .. this has all to do with making assertions .. which has been denied by the person concerned.

He can say what he likes about PN .. I couldnt give a fig . They have made big mistakes. Maybe my standards are a bit higher than some on what is common courtesy. Using them to get a hit on a company you don't like is a no no.

If we got anything for free we would tell you but we just don't.

Ian

Yes ..you havent seen his evidence and of course you would never believe the word of Kitz would you?

B.....ks. When I was a member of PUG, not only did we not get any benefit, but we had a major to do with Plusnet because we were all out pocket for a considerable period waiting for them to pay our expenses for attending a meeting in Sheffield. To add insult to injury, the expenses they paid were so miserly it wasn't true!

In reply to:

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Yes ..you havent seen his evidence and of course you would never believe the word of Kitz would you?

---

Are you really as stupid as you sound?

No, I haven't seen Simon's evidence, but I believe he has it. And yes, I do believe Kitz, I have a great deal of respect for her. But as Simon has never accused Kitz of anything (afaik), I fail to see what you are getting so worked up about!

Provide me with links showing where Simon has accused Kitz of anything and I might revise my opinion of you.

Edited by billford (Mon 06-Nov-06 00:19:54)

In reply to:

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All I will say is that my post (unlike yours) made no personal accusations whatsoever.

---

Your post effectively accused Kitz of a lack of integrity for accepting a free upgrade from Plusnet at a time when she was having connection problems. Everyone in here knows just how much Kitz puts in to trying to help other users which she does because it's something she likes to do - not because of any reward or benefit. I've seen Kitz in action within PUG and I can assure you that she gives PN a very tough time behind the scenes when needed.

You also accused PUG members in general of having received some benefit. Are you suggesting that I received some benefit while I was a PUG member?

I have some idea of why Kitz hasn't been around much recently. I think it could be summed up by saying she has far more important things on her mind than responding ludicrous accusations of idiots like you.

If there was an ounce of decency in your body you would retract your accusations and make a public apology - but somehow I don't expect you will.

I repeat, kitz, I haven't accused you of anything. It's possible that you didn't even know about it. So maybe you can enlighten yourself - and others hereabouts - by asking one of the PlusNet reps whether you were given a free upgrade or not. Please report back what they say. Then, and only then, I may consider revealing my evidence.

Simon

Your post effectively accused Kitz of a lack of integrity for accepting a free upgrade from Plusnet at a time when she was having connection problems.
-----
I said no such thing. It's possible that she didn't even know about it. Please spin your particular brand of misinformation elsewhere or find better vehicles for venting your prejudices here.
-----
You also accused PUG members in general of having received some benefit. Are you suggesting that I received some benefit while I was a PUG member?
-----
How odd that neither you, nor any PUG member nor any PlusNet rep questioned it way back when.... Could you perhaps try to get your head around the concept that, unknown to you or other PUG members, PlusNet may be enhancing your connection (for reasons which should be obvious)?

Simon

Doesn't lack of clarity on terms render it a "dodgy deal"? Sure does in my book.

Why are you all answering that twit? Isn't it obvious that he not had an excuse to see his name in print for some time so he's jumped on this thread. He's got no information from PlusNet or anyone else regards to customers accounts.

And are you so blinded by your prejudice?? Kitz has told him that nothing of the sort has taken place but you wont accept her word will you?? Simon has what evidence???

Instead of trying to spin your way out of this with your expertise in PR . You thought of ever once saying sorry hands up i was wrong . Takes a big man to do that , instead of trying to worm his way out of trouble with the twisting of words .

What you talking about now

I went shopping in tesco the other day and got over charged by 72p, because i never got my 1 for 2 offer . Should i now wish for tesco to go bankrupted ? I only see this passionate behaviour toward isps, its truly a phenomenon.

People have a problem with businesses slipping in sneaky clauses in T&Cs. I'm in business. I know more than 90% of customers never properly read the terms and conditions that are planted deep in a mass of legal jargon. Those that do read them, well chances of them actually understanding muchb of the content are relatively slim. This is likely why PN have been so successful in signing people upto contracts they had no clue they were agreeing too. How trading standards has allowed them to get away with it is beyond me. If we pulled the same stunts in our line of business we'd be fined out of existance.....

The most recent one that made me chuckle was the idea they were suddenly going to slap all their business customers onto auto-renewing 12 months contracts. Wise they backed off from that because the business fraternity would not take the same bs that consumers are willing to take without a legal fight.

Are PN getting better? It seems they have at least become more upfront with the key terms they expect customers to agree to. Whether that's because they've been strongly leaned on or they realise their reputation is going to hamper their viral driven business model I don't know.

Edited by deleted (Mon 06-Nov-06 04:42:16)

In reply to:

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None of PlusNet's customers are in a "dodgy 5 year contract". Some of them selected the option to defer payment of the connection fee and hardware over 5 years. They may not have done this knowingly, but in any case they were still in a 1 month or 1 year contract.

---

The last point is precisely the problem. An alarming number of customers have come forward having no idea they had signed onto 5 year contracts.

In reply to:

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This may not be the best deal on the market, but there is nothing dodgy about it except that maybe the terms were not as clear as they could have been.

---

Yes it's a very small non-issue nothing to see here I wish our customers would be so forgiving if we tried using T&Cs to secure the same kind of lock-ins.

Some might suggest they have long existed in areas they can't control

LOL a fool and his money is soon parted Joking aside I find that all rather unsurprising, taken for a ride springs to mind.

no you should make sure you get your extra item plus your 72p back as well How many more customers like you should just forget about it when you don`t get your 2 for 1 !

Very concerned how this thread has developed mainly be cause of this post by yourself.

Sadoldman

Just a tad sad..a wee bit old...

hi there Billford

Sadoldman put it into words better than I could have.

http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=plusnet&Number=2742706&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=0

And Billford it isn't just me seeing things this way is it ... http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=plusnet&Number=2742706&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=0

In reply to:

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Sadoldman put it into words better than I could have.

---

Don is entitled to his opinion, as am I. I think he's wrong.

As a moderator, he has powers which it would be unwise of me to ignore- for example if he tells me to desist from posting in this forum then I will. But those powers don't extend to telling me what to think.

However, I will stop posting in this thread until the matter of Simon's evidence is settled one way or the other. If I'm wrong then I will apologise to anyone I have affronted. If I'm right then I will expect apologies from those who have attacked me.

Fair enough?

Edited by billford (Mon 06-Nov-06 10:50:49)

My only issue, is that I think it is wrong to post statements regarding other individuals, if you cannot produce evidence to back it up. Saying that you have the evidence but cannot produce is easily done. For example, if I made a post saying that Billford receives payments from his ISP to bash plusnet in the plusnet forums, and I have the evidence to back this up but cannot produce it, I think you would feel rightly annoyed.

[censored] hell! I just asked if James still worked at PN, and this thread erupted! I had hoped the thread hijacking bickering days were gone on this board - clearly not.

Not aimed at you footys, just yours is the last post. And I haven't read the thread, because I have better stuff to do with my time. I've got hold of James and had my query answered satisfactorily. My apologies to James (and anyone else) for inadvertently opening up this can of worms.

>he has powers which it would be unwise of me to ignore

Not powers Bill, responsibilities. for good or ill.

The only "opinion" I hold on this subject is that allegations have been made against a named individual who it seems has to "prove" that these allegations are unfounded, I cannot see that as being right.

All this again is belly button staring I reckon. If a poster wants to address the issue of an ISP manipulating users for their own ends as a general topic fair enough but some evidence would be needed to to maintain such a stance if they wished to maintain credibility.

This is a case of a name being dragged in from someone who was not involved with the thread. Once you name an individual it is not a general "issue" it is then very personal to the person named I would think.

James does still work at PlusNet, btw - just in case your original question never got answered.

Yep, I know, thanks. He got in touch with me following this thread! Issue resolved, I shall return to lurking mode.

Edited by deleted (Mon 06-Nov-06 11:59:14)

I think PN have been underhanded and found out and PR100 did do a good job in showing us all what PN were doing , but now it looks bitter and twisted and the record needs changing. Then we get the simplistic" they deserve to go bust" as the cherry on the cake .

In reply to:

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If we got anything for free we would tell you but we just don't.

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Fair enough, but for those that jumped on me, read my post again, I said IF as well.

But anyway, fair play to you if you want to spend your own time helping Plusnet. Its not something I would do for a good ISP, never mind Plusnet, but if thats what you want to do, then so be it.

I'll say no more about PUG getting freebies, I accept I was wrong on this particular point, sorry to those on PUG for any offence I may have caused on this matter.

Why (even if I had seen the post) would I feel the need to comment when the suggestion was officially refuted by James?

<quote>To suggest that we give some forum-going preferential treatment over others is ludicrous to suggest and does not happen. If you have any evidence to suggest this, then I would be happy to address it.</quote>

Did you put forward any evidence? No (but then that's your style to make wild accusations and then twist and turn things for your own agenda).

Anyone can make allegations, to make assertions without being prepared to back it up with the evidence just makes it look a complete fiction, I think the expression is

Put up or shut up!

The irony is, he is doing exactly what he accused PN of doing . Its a matter of similar personalities not getting along .

Oh I fully intend to "put up" as soon as I have obtained one thing - then I'll be demanding an appropriate response from someone.

It's amazing how much people can focus on one person... almost like a celebrity

thread closed.. let's get back to issues.


seb