In reply to:

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If moderation and peace is such a priority then surely the sniping, insults and personal pursuit of other posters should have been high on the list. And yet, despite bringing this to the attention of those responsible, the very same people are here on a regular basis, without any input to the discussion, posting freely attacking posters not the subject or opinion.

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Just expanding on that point. I seem to remember a while back all sides were told to back off. All sides were told to desist. Some did. Some didn't.

I for one did, and I'm a happier man. I treat the service as just that and don't let petty-minded pedantics over an ISP bother me any more.

In almost two years there were numerous posts from some saying that if person 'x' stopped posting, then things would calm down. Did they? Judging by this thread and the thread which ultimately spawned it, one side had no intention of stopping posting, or even calming down on the matter.


To no one in particular:

I see several mention of 'Pro' and 'Anti'. TBH I've never heard so much hogwash. Who the hell is 'for' an ISP and if someone is 'against' an ISP enough, then they should be looking inward I feel.

Anyway, best of luck to all. I have no real opinion on the ban. It's Seb's forum and if he bans me permanently for no reason whatsoever, I can complain as much as I want, but it won't change anything. A little like being banned from a pub, it stings at first, then you find another pub.

>Some, like me, are currently happy with the service I pay for but sometimes I feel the pressure to move on because being made to feel like an idiot for staying with this isp.

Spot on. There is no doubt in my mind that this is in fact the case and many times some posters read a post as a negative about their choice of ISP instead at looking what the poster is trying to achieve. I always aimed at improving the service the customer was getting with PN, my intent was never to drive the customer to another ISP and yet I faced no end of criticism. Some people also forget that the information that is at their fingertips because of forums like this is not available to the vast majority of normal customers and that is something we should all be untied on. However, I can't expect everyone to be in agreement over every issue and I am happy to debate the topic, it is only when things become personal does it get out of hand. Personally I don't think being critical of PN is being personal but many people do seem to take it as a direct insult on their choice of ISP as you state.

"I don't even have a PlusNet branded USB stick, t shirt, mug or whatever they actually use for corporate gifts."

They silently upgrade your account, but since you don't have an account..

TT

Edited by deleted (Wed 09-May-07 23:35:28)

Just because it happens elsewhere doesn't make it right.
I agree things are better of late, it's my impression of the last 6 months.

Sometimes I think asking to post links is just as bad as 'fanboys' asking why that question has been asked! There just too much of it on here from both 'sides' sorry if you find offence with that it not directed at you personnally. There are people on here that are trying to save the world from plusnet and people who are saving plusnet from the world, both sides use the same methods..prove that with a link or why are you even asking that question! just tired of it all.

Perhaps TBB should close the forum for a week to let it all cool down

> You know as well as anybody, that things do get heated in this forum, and
> as long as things are not personal or rude etc, *should* be allowed.

Well I would class use of the word "liar" as usually quite personal. You'd even get thrown out of the House of Commons for saying that. I'm not happy about things like that happening on here without evidence.. (and if someone comes to me with evidence of PN staff lying (a false statement intended to deceive) then I will deal with it appropriate).

> However, we have now seen a person made an example of, and no one now knows
> where they stand on your statement above.

I repeat this is not an issue of a person being made an example. We just feel this is the most appropriate start. Ironically it puts us in a very difficult position if we add another anti-PN type person to the list.. <shrugs>

> I appreciate that you cannot give 100% clear guidelines of what is and not acceptable,
> but people will now be afraid of standing up to people like Plusnet on here for fear of
> being forcibly removed, hence completely letting Plusnet off from being taken to task with.

If it makes users think before posting, it may well prove it works.


> Yes things have been bad in the past, however that was not just the posters on here,
> that was the staff of Plusnet as well, thing is, they were always allowed to get away with it.

Absolutely. I think PN have acted disgracefully in the past.. I think they are having an open mind though.. I'd use the example of them coming back here but they did in doing so post things I took great issue with so I'm not sure if it's the best example. Either way, I honestly believe they are trying to engage now.. and I think some people are just determined to blame them unless they are 'perfect' to their model ISP (whether that's sustainable or not being irrelevant), a standard they don't hold other ISPs to.

I'm not suggesting here that it's not ok to complain about one ISP and not others.. but I think context needs to be in mind still.

In reply to:

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Things have now moved on, and I respectfully ask that you review the 3 month BAN to maybe 2 weeks. This still enforces your intentions, especially to Simon.

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Firstly we have made it clear to Simon he is welcome to participate on the site at any time, but we want him to stay away from PN for the time being (which is what the 3 months refers to).. If he confirms he'll do this, he can come and post on the site right away. He can give you all the legal help you want on general ISP issues.


> Thank you for answering personnally Seb, it is appreciated.

I'm not going to be hiding after we've made a controversial decision.. There's another one coming up soon (not related to pr100 or PN) soon :-p



seb

In reply to:

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Short term it will probably be bad for our reputation... I'm hoping medium term it might help. Maybe 3 months is both too long and too short at the same time.. I'm not saying we might not change that.. but the purpose of this is to try and give the forum some breathing space.
We were under no illusions as to the problems this is going to cause us from a group of people.. I would have been half tempted to include more right at the outset but I think that would have a side effect of letting PN off the hook on things they should be taken to task with.

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Couldnt the above be seen as evidence of the mods/admin taking sides here?
You seem to be saying that more "anti Plusnetters" were considred for a ban, with nothing mentioned about banning the PRO ones
(My embolding in your quote)

Purdy

"I keep hearing this yet breaking consumer law thing.. but I've yet to see anyone get far in court on that."

I think we went through this before, you didn't want those kind of stickies in your forums which is understandable given you want to maintain a friendly relationship with ISPs. I think you've lost a source of good advice on consumer issues and the site will be poorer for it.

TT

> They silently upgrade your account, but since you don't have account..

Nope.. I had an F9 account many many years ago when they did 0808/0800 dial up (before broadband).. and they took my credit card details.. then told me my account would be activated the following day or something.. so I said "cancel it then" at which point they said it had gone through already (the card payment).. I somehow got the money back by complaining (I think direct.. might have been via bank)... [this was so many years ago my memory is not that good]


seb

I do feel the lack of another Mod on this forum doesn't help.

If the first point of attack is addressed then this forum wouldn't have the issues it has now.
But too many times it drags on, and the person that started making it a personal issue isn't dealt with.

I've had some great debates with you, and lost the plot once or twice during them. I like your blog and have commented a couple of times (constructively I hope!). Got no problems with yours posts and PR100 until a few weeks ago. Happy to be made to think about how I spend my money