User comments on ISPs
  >> PlusNet plc


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | (show all)   Print Thread
Standard User andrewh1973
(newbie) Wed 10-Jul-19 07:46:02
Print Post

Daily random disconnects, PlusNet doing nothing to resolve..


[link to this post]
 
I've been with PlusNet for a number of years and on their VDSL service at least, have had nothing but solid reliability using my own Draytek Vigor2850 router.

However these past few weeks I've been getting several random disconnects each day, usually in isolation but on one occasion several drops in succession over a few minutes. Each time these have been unexplained by PlusNet who say their systems do not provide any reason for the disconnects nor indicate which end dropped the connection (this I find hard to believe).

They've sent a BT engineer out, the physical connection is fine, no faults at all and say they cannot see anything wrong and until there's 5 or 6 drops in one day or so then there's no real problem. I do regard 2 or 3 drops per day as a problem (and these are confirmed by TB's BQM) given it takes several minutes for the connection to re-establish after.

Can anyone suggest anything I can do / can ask them to do or am I simply now in the realms of having to find a new ISP that takes these issues seriously?

Thanks!

Andrew Holland/
Standard User andrewh1973
(learned) Wed 10-Jul-19 08:01:30
Print Post

Re: Daily random disconnects, PlusNet doing nothing to resol


[re: andrewh1973] [link to this post]
 
Actually just after I wrote that, I've spoken with PlusNet again, they've now changed the SNR Margin from 35000 to 40000, they assure me this will have an impact on line drops. While I understand what SNR is, I'm not all that clued up on this margin value. Does changing it to 40000 now make the line more tolerant/reliable and if so, how/why?

Andrew Holland/
Standard User flilot
(learned) Wed 10-Jul-19 08:52:17
Print Post

Re: Daily random disconnects, PlusNet doing nothing to resol


[re: andrewh1973] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by andrewh1973:
Actually just after I wrote that, I've spoken with PlusNet again, they've now changed the SNR Margin from 35000 to 40000, they assure me this will have an impact on line drops. While I understand what SNR is, I'm not all that clued up on this margin value. Does changing it to 40000 now make the line more tolerant/reliable and if so, how/why?

SNR margin is in decibels and is usually a low number in the 10s, such as 6. So I'm guessing they changed it from 3.5dB to 4dB. A higher margin gives more tolerance to interference / noise on the line. Say your line was at 3dB which is a low margin, and there was a huge burst of interference, the line would probably drop because the margin it has to maintain connection is low, however if that same huge burst of interference occurred and your line was at 6dB it has a larger margin and so would more likely maintain connection.

Kitz has a great explanation here: https://kitz.co.uk/adsl/linestats.htm#SNR_Margin

Carl
____________________________
cabinet8 - My journey back to xDSL after a decade with VM
ZeN Fibre 2 | Huawei HG612 via Fritz!Box 7530 | ECI Cab


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Wed 10-Jul-19 10:12:14
Print Post

Re: Daily random disconnects, PlusNet doing nothing to resol


[re: andrewh1973] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by andrewh1973:
Actually just after I wrote that, I've spoken with PlusNet again, they've now changed the SNR Margin from 35000 to 40000, they assure me this will have an impact on line drops. While I understand what SNR is, I'm not all that clued up on this margin value. Does changing it to 40000 now make the line more tolerant/reliable and if so, how/why?

VDSL2 FTTC Is controlled solely by BT's DLM No ISP has control over that, Though supplied by every ISP the physical side belongs to and is controlled by BT openreach,therefore they cannot configure stuff like Target SNR,So who ever told you that misinformed you ISP's do have 3 options of stability profiles, Available to them which increases or decreases the MTBE threshold, & request a DLM reset (Both via BT)They also should be able to see all drops but their equipment can't distinguish between a PPPOE Session drop between your router and their radius server or a drop in sync Is your modem re syncing or is it just the PPPOE session?

Edited by tommy45 (Wed 10-Jul-19 10:20:23)

Standard User andrewh1973
(learned) Wed 10-Jul-19 22:19:53
Print Post

Re: Daily random disconnects, PlusNet doing nothing to resol


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
As I recall, since I've rarely seen it drop when I'm actually sitting with the admin screens open / at my desk, it does resync the line when it drops. Following that chat with them this morning, I then got an email telling me they've switched on interleaving but mentioning nothing about SNR margins...

Andrew Holland/
Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 12-Jul-19 11:00:06
Print Post

Re: Daily random disconnects, PlusNet doing nothing to resol


[re: andrewh1973] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by andrewh1973:
Actually just after I wrote that, I've spoken with PlusNet again, they've now changed the SNR Margin from 35000 to 40000, they assure me this will have an impact on line drops. While I understand what SNR is, I'm not all that clued up on this margin value. Does changing it to 40000 now make the line more tolerant/reliable and if so, how/why?


They lied. That makes zero sense.

They have zero control of the DLM

The target SNR Margin can only 6dB, 5dB, 4dB or 3dB.
6dB is the default and lower SNRM targets are only tried if G.INP (ReTx) is enabled and the line is stable.

from 35000 to 40000


Sounds more like an increase in banding (capping of sync speed).
Banding is applied due to too many resyncs.
ISP's cannot adjust this as they have no control of the DLM.

If you are on a 40Mb package and were capped at 35Mb, then Plusnet asking OpenReach to reset the DLM would increase sync from 35000 to 40000.

The DLM can only be reset, not tweaked.
Standard User derby13
(regular) Fri 12-Jul-19 12:42:40
Print Post

Re: Daily random disconnects, PlusNet doing nothing to resol


[re: andrewh1973] [link to this post]
 
Sounds like you're going through the exact same problem I had last year, and I was also with Plusnet. Multiple disconnections per day, at random times. At first they sent a new router out, which made no difference. I tried a third party router too - also a Draytek, but again no difference. After that they said that they weren't willing to do anything as disconnections are normal. To quote them, they said "that's just how the internet works". I argued this, saying that no other connection I've ever had/used was that unreliable, and got three engineer visits. The first replaced the master socket, the second replaced the wiring on my external wall, and the third swapped me to a different underground pair between my house and the cabinet. None of this made any difference whatsoever. As Plusnet's remote tests never showed any faults, nor did the engineers' tests at my house, they again said that they weren't willing to do anything.

Shortly afterwards, my contract with Plusnet ran out, and I swapped over to Sky, and the connection is now incredibly reliable and never drops out. I am of course on exactly the same line, with the exception of being connected to Sky's phone hardware at the exchange rather than BT's. So my theory is that some sort of fault with the voice part of the line was somehow affecting the line (despite it being FTTC) and causing the disconnects. I may be wrong but I can't think of any other explanation, unless anyone can suggest otherwise?

Edited by derby13 (Fri 12-Jul-19 12:48:15)

Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 12-Jul-19 18:01:22
Print Post

Re: Daily random disconnects, PlusNet doing nothing to resol


[re: derby13] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by derby13:
Shortly afterwards, my contract with Plusnet ran out, and I swapped over to Sky, and the connection is now incredibly reliable and never drops out. I am of course on exactly the same line, with the exception of being connected to Sky's phone hardware at the exchange rather than BT's. So my theory is that some sort of fault with the voice part of the line was somehow affecting the line (despite it being FTTC) and causing the disconnects. I may be wrong but I can't think of any other explanation, unless anyone can suggest otherwise?


I'd say not really possible without hardware at either end changing.
Same line, same hardware, same port on the DSLAM.

Changing provider can reset the DLM and make sync change a little, but it can't cure a physical line fault.

Sky's equipment isn't involved in the VDSL2/FTTC link at all.

Coincidence, or 1 of the rare cases where a port swap was done during migration (not common).
I'd be surprised that they changed the Master socket, the drop wire, and a pair swap to the cabinet, but hadn't tried a port swap.

Was there downtime during the migration?
Port swaps often fix things like you mentioned.
Almost all migrations are automated on the same port though.

edit: could be the obvious, that you switched from Plusnet Hub to the Sky Hub at the same time.
That puts the blame on the Plusnet Hub One.

Edited by j0hn83 (Fri 12-Jul-19 18:10:52)

Standard User longedge
(experienced) Fri 12-Jul-19 19:20:41
Print Post

Re: Daily random disconnects, PlusNet doing nothing to resol


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
That puts the blame on the Plusnet Hub One.

BT, Plusnet and TBB forums have posts going back 5 or more years on the subject of disconnections after a log entry "PPP LCP Send Termination Request [Peer not responding]" which is immediately followed by the PPPoE session being dropped.

I had horrendous problems with +Net Hub One which I mitigated by bypassing the inbuilt modem and going back to my original Openreach one.
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Fri 12-Jul-19 22:11:31
Print Post

Re: Daily random disconnects, PlusNet doing nothing to resol


[re: longedge] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by longedge:
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
That puts the blame on the Plusnet Hub One.

BT, Plusnet and TBB forums have posts going back 5 or more years on the subject of disconnections after a log entry "PPP LCP Send Termination Request [Peer not responding]" which is immediately followed by the PPPoE session being dropped.
I had horrendous problems with +Net Hub One which I mitigated by bypassing the inbuilt modem and going back to my original Openreach one.
PPPOE session drops are common with plusnet , i would be lucky if they didn't drop the session in any month, they probably do this to balence traffic load,
Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to