Comments, yes. Attacks, no.

Probably if PlusNet wasn't as transparent regarding many of their problems, if they kept quiet like other ISPs, there wouldn't be the ammunition.
I see as many, or more, complaints on other ISP forums here, but I don't see the concerted attacks by ex-customers and people who have never been customers that I see on the Plusnet forum.

Do you honestly think that, say, Tiscalli is a better ISP?

I know people with them, and they have more complaints than PlusNet, genuine complaints.
True, they haven't lost all their mail, but PlusNet was at fault by allowing people to keep all their mail on the servers. IMAP and webmail is useful for short periods, but if you want a professional dedicated online mail service you pay a specialist company to provide it. At least one other ISP just delays delivery for weeks while they sort problems out, and don't answer the complaints

Do you honestly think that, say, Tiscalli is a better ISP?

Yes I do, I'll even go as far as saying AOL is a better ISP than Plusnet too. Even Tiscalli manages to not have anywhere near as many issues as Plusnet does week on week.

Maybe there is a need for plusnet as a company to have some common sense bashed into it though? Thats the point of community forums isn't it, to voice concerns and open comments?

I suppose it depends what you want from an ISP.

Have you ever been a customer of either? I have, and BT too.
They're fine providing you want what they offer and you have no problems.
Ever tried sorting any problem out with an Indian who speaks little English, who you can't understand and he can't understand you at

PlusNet does listen to customers, more now than in the past. But that is thanks to PlusNet forums, not ex-customers and non-customers bashing away fro the sake of it.

I've always found that logical argument always wins over bashing. I may be swayed by a logical argument, but if somebody tries to change my mind by bashing me over the head, I guarantee I'll go in the opposite direction to the one the basher wants.

The same for companies. As a company director I know that boards are composed of people, and people tend to react to threats in the same way, regardless of whether they are individuals or corporate entities.

Probably if PlusNet wasn't as transparent regarding many of their problems, if they kept quiet like other ISPs, there wouldn't be the ammunition.
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Do you mean "transparent" as in when they introduced network management/throttling secretly and denied its existence for weeks?

Or "transparent" as in when they started migrating customers to Tiscali LLU without warning and with no hint that they would be locked in with no escape route?

Or "transparent" as in when they tried to claim for months that Up-to-4/8MB Premier customers knew about their mythical increased data allowances?

There are many other examples of their lack of transparency. They are selectively transparent only when it suits them.
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I see as many, or more, complaints on other ISP forums here, but I don't see the concerted attacks by ex-customers and people who have never been customers that I see on the Plusnet forum.
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PlusNet make the mistake of dismissing criticism as an attack. They use the term to hide behind when they have no substantive answer to valid criticisms. If the Tiscali forum contains less criticism/fewer complaints then I would assume that they either have fewer issues than PlusNet or fewer customers/ex-customers with complaints; or better complaints handling procedures.
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I know people with them, and they have more complaints than PlusNet, genuine complaints.
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Do you have actual data to prove that or are you basing the assumption on your friends' say-so? Have you counted the complaints in the PlusNet-controlled forums? Does it matter anyway? The noise level is more a reflection of unresolved complaints and criticisms than of the total number of issues.

Simon

Too often, PlusNet have shown themselves to be impervious to logical arguments, whether made by customers, ex-customers or non-customers. The very limited set of catalysts which do seem to work with them include:

- Ofcom intervention
- Customer churn
- Adverse publicity
- Share price slump
- Litigation

Of course, these come only after logical argument has failed.

Simon

"PlusNet does listen to customers, more now than in the past. But that is thanks to PlusNet forums, not ex-customers and non-customers bashing away fro the sake of it. "

Absolute rubbish, they have acted beacuse of other forums (this one included), they have taken on board past and present customers criticism, and have begun to act on it.

The only reason, it appears that Plusnet have done something in their own forums, is:

a) They have abandoned this forum, for reasons like PR100 has pointed out

b) To keep the lid on things, ie some topics you actually have to be a member of plusnet, and so any prospective customer, even viewing the PUG forums cannot see certain improvemnet threads as they have to have a plusnet ip to register to view- that is wrong. Only once you have registered can you see the full extent of the problems and their resolve to put thing right.

c) they have only recently, shown that they are really listening and taking on board the criticism that has been aimed at them.

Before you defend them to the hilt and insult people on here, a lot of posters are either ex customers or existing customers. I myself was with Plusnet for about 6 years

Can i ask how long you have been with them?

Comments, yes. Attacks, no.

Unfortunately, it's not easy to separate the two. That would be censorship. It's up to readers of the posts to make up their own minds what is credible and what is simply malicious.

Probably if PlusNet wasn't as transparent regarding many of their problems, if they kept quiet like other ISPs, there wouldn't be the ammunition.

It was users who blew the whistle on the one way LLU migration fiasco not PN. Maybe I'm naive but I think most ISPs would have 'fessed up to losing x GB of emails.


I see as many, or more, complaints on other ISP forums here, but I don't see the concerted attacks by ex-customers and people who have never been customers that I see on the Plusnet forum.

None of the other ISPs have implimented a swinging series of changes to terms & conditions alongside a dramatic reduction in quality of service and reduced support. Since the flotation Plusnet have pursued a policy of reducing costs, attracting mass numbers of basic service users and weeding out high bandwith users. Whether that is the best way forward is up to them but many users who had "Invested" years in PlusNet and recommended them to friends didn't just feel like leaving - they felt angry. That view has been properly reflected in a number of forums, including PlusNet's moderated areas.

Do you honestly think that, say, Tiscalli is a better ISP?

I dont know. I have no experience of Tiscali. PlusNet must like them though as they're punting a large number of their own subscribers over to Tiscali wholesale every month (without telling them first or setting up a free way out again!) The argument was made that Tiscali wholesale is a better and superior animal to the Tiscali ISP. Do you think that argument has stood the test of time?

A year or two ago I would have laughed at the idea of moving from PlusNet to BT Broadband but I have and it's great. A faster connection, no throttling of non BT newsgroups, a great Home Hub for free and when I did use their support it just worked.

I'm monitoring PlusNet because it's just possible they'll find their way back again. I think it's more likely that they'll be taken over though as they dont have the critical mass to compete with their current strategy of attracting low tech low value subscribers.

Regards

Martin

Edited by arnsbrae (Sun 20-Aug-06 14:02:29)

I think one of plusnet's main thorns in its side is when someone somewhere takes critisism personally when its directed at Plusnet as a company.

Reacting as such is completely unprofessional and utimately self-defeating.