What would have happened to a customer's contract had they signed up in Dec '05 - could PN unilaterally give them notice in Sept '06 that they were changing the Ts&Cs or would they be bound to honour the contract until at least Dec '06? What do you think, as I am not seeking a legal opinion?

I was referring the the basic ADSL package as a comparison to the current 8 Mb/s package - it was clearly possible to get the higher rate by paying extra. Also, I tried to find out when everyone on the basic account was given 2 Mb/s - not sure but it looks like the second half of 2004?
Most of the issues (BBP, FUP, SUP, etc.) had their roots in that roll-out of higher and higher speeds on the low cost accounts - hence my point that when most people had 512 Kb/s there wasn't an obvious problem and PN were able to support 'unlimited'.

Yes. I'm fairly sure that the T&Cs state that they can be amended by giving notice - hence why people were able to get out of the contracts early by not agreeing to the changes during the notice period.

In light of that, someone who gets a significant changes to the terms during their contract may not be oblidged to fulfill all their side of the contract.

Could the customer have rejected the changes and forced PN to honour the contract for the remainder instead?

I don't think that they can do that, this is why..

If you don't agree to the changes then they would cancel your contract rather than let you have your original contract.

They won't even let you have the ability to keep your Plus.net email account because they won't migrate you down to a PAYG account because that falls under the same T's and C's... Plus.net will say that you cannot pick and choose what you want from the T's and C's.

In reply to:

---

If you don't agree to the changes then they would cancel your contract rather than let you have your original contract.

---

Would it also therefore be true if reversed i.e. you gave them 14 days notice of your unilateral decision and intention to pay them a reduced amount of

Edited by rsharma (Tue 05-Sep-06 12:08:53)

IANAL but isn't it a case that as Plus.net are the vendor in this they can change the terms and conditions because you have to agree to theirs and not the other way round?

Since when do people quote their own terms and conditions when signing up for an ISP? I don't remember teling the Plus.net sales person that I wanted this term and condition added to my contract with them which would be in my favour. If this was the case then the ISP legal department would be a very busy place.

I think that if I were to do what you suggested I would be advised to go and take a long walk, hence why I said that Plus.net wouldn't allow people to cherry pick the T's and C's.

Of course there are different circumstances where changing the T's and C's would apply in real life e.g. if someone who had an outstanding mortgage with a bank suddenly found out that they were being made redundant they could approach the bank in question and ask them to defer mortgage repayments or ask them renegotiate the mortgage as it is in their best interests that the borrower pays them back rather than go through something serious like bankruptcy.

In reply to:

---

IANAL but isn't it a case that as Plus.net are the vendor in this they can change the terms and conditions because you have to agree to theirs and not the other way round?

---

No.

It is true it is a contract "drawn up by them" but it becomes a contract binding on both parties equally for the duration of the contracted term and in equal measure. Therefore, you are not abiding by "their contract" but rather "to the contract" and the company is forced to do the same.

This is also why consumer protection laws are in place - the consumer does not negotiate contracts with companies and is in a weaker position since they have little or no choice in relation to specific Terms or clauses within the contract whereas a business will either negotiate the contract or will have financial resources to seek legal help prior to formation of contract.

PN are bound to the contract as much as you are to it, breach by either side will occur irrespective of who initiates change since it can not be forced on the other party simply by giving notice. We don't need to complicate things.

A contract is nothing more than a promise to do/supply something, in a certain way/date, for a defined payment and for an agreed period but entered into writing to cover eventualities, rights and duties. For one to try and change/amend it would mean a break of promise unless it is done by notification and voluntary agreement of the other(s) involved. Failure to carry out the promise gives one the ability for either enforcement of the promise or payment for breaking it through legal means.

Edited by rsharma (Tue 05-Sep-06 12:45:18)

I need to add something. PN's contract states that they will give notice if changes are made to the detriment of the consumer but this raises a few issues:

Who will determine whether a change is to the detriment of the user?
What happens if PN do not accept it is a detriment but the consumer does?

The other provision in the contract stipulates that if the changes are rejected that PN can bring to an end of the contract and without mention of damages. This in turn would be a matter needing to be challenged in court to decide whether it was fair or whether you could force PN to provide the contracted for service for the remainder of the period. You could probably successfully argue that this Term was unfair, defeats the object of forming a contract and that it is available only to one party (the ISP) and hence an unfair advantage over the consumer.

Just a few things to consider but since this is just general debate it is good to examine these issues.

If you announced the intention to change the contact, and they reject and cancel it, you're still liable for what you originally agreeded to, including the minimum 12 month term.