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I think seb, you (adsl mgmt) have forgotten how these forums used to be. Regardless of how good or bad an ISP may or may not have been, you could get genuine help for genuine problems, fair advice and guidance.

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We do want this to be a site where people will help each other but when it comes to it we are also here for people to choose an ISP, and this is not an "ISP users only" community. A user group for current users is obviously going to attract less criticism as anyone unhappy with an ISP will leave at some point.. For helping users of the service this has its benefits, but it also gives people who are looking at the service a distorted picture of problems. Communities such as that attract happier users... and ironically because a lot of happy users use those, it means we may end up with more unhappy users.. but forcing those away from our site isn't the answer either.

I do agree on the issue of raising points again and again.. There are two fundemental problems with this issue and how we deal with it. Firstly, when an ISP believes they have not made a mistake or done anything wrong (e.g. pricing on the Premier), this becomes an on-going issue.. If a mistake is admitted keeping on at it has no merit.. If there is a legitimate argument about an ISP's attitude, it becomes a more difficult situation to judge. This isn't to say one or two issues can continue forever to dominate the forum.. and even rsharma has suggested we should move on.. but look at the response some from the so called "pro-PN" camp to what I do believe is a genuine suggestion (because I had an e-mail exchange with him before it).

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just seen your sticky: The point about ignoring posts, give us a kill file function, then we could possibly see the other posts.

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I will have to admit I think in this situation a killfile function could be useful because of the sheer volume of posts.. but do remember it's those who reply to those posts that cause the issues..


seb

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And that was from Camie, who (with all due respect to him) doesn't really count.

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I myself have no further input to this thread. It's like so many in here. It started with a positive point, and was pulled down by those who wish it to remain negative. rsharma's method may have been a little flawed, but I saw his point, and agreed with most of it. Pity really.

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Well why don't ADSLguide staff take a side? You can't sit on the fence forever. Alot of angst in these forums exists because as the UK's largest ADSL focused website adslguide does not speak out about injustice. Theres been enough discussion, its obvious that plusnet in its policies believes it can do things which are wrong (if notmorally reprehensible).

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See you want us to take YOUR SIDE... How do you think we can moderate a forum if we focus on pushing our personal views here.. We do comment on our views and I think someone (probably PN but I don't have time to check so I won't attribute it to them) took issue with that.. This doesn't bother me.



seb

I have opined elsewhere in this thread that a killfile is the most pragmatic way to reduce the antagonism and general noise level here. But I don't think it would suit some posters who are not so much concerned for their own peace but seem passionate about trying to prevent certain views being seen by others.

The oft-expressed notion (by a small number of posters) that no-one apart from current customers should be allowed to express criticism is at the root of the problems I think.

Simon

Au contraire. By undertaking not to reply to certain posters I am effectively guaranteeing them the last word, n'est-ce pas?

Simon

I'm not suggesting you take sides in debates in the forums, I'm suggesting you run a story or put a sticky at the top of the forum page warning customers of the dangers of picking a certain ISP. Like "this ISP" has done this! Shock horror!" and "this ISP has done that!". "We think its wrong and should stop" etc......

Its not about sides seb, its about DOING THE RIGHT THING, it don't just go for plusnet it goes for ALL ISP's. You know what goes on yet ADSLguide continues to sit silent neglecting to inform potential / existing customers of what ISP's are doing.

At the end of the day, you know aswell as me that unscrupulous things happen in UK ADSL.

>>>>>>Well why don't ADSLguide staff take a side?

I have as a matter of fact and that is the side of being part of an independent BBS and to keep it that way as best I can.

This site has allowed you to express your feelings, the same ones and repeated many many times it seems, but also allowed people who feel just as strongly as you to put a different viewpoint, regardless of our sympathies for one side or another, if we have any that is.

If you want a more partisan site where people of like minds can agree...well start one, but it will be a rather sterile one I suspect.

Everybody wants better moderation, the problem being that everyone has a different concept of what that means...and who should be moderated,.... that's the kicker.

All it takes is to delete posts that are personally abusive. But then that causes problems because all posts linked to that one, even though not abusive are also deleted.

Perhaps bans from posting in a particular forum where one has misbehaved?. I think the problem arises where personal abuse is posted as per this list, all from one poster;
http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=plusnet&Number=2655701

Yet appears to go unchecked, whilst other posts less offensive are commented on.

He thought so too. But rsharma's post was for discussion, rather than an edict. I'm more pragmatic I guess. There isn't an iceberg in Hell's chance that certain posters will ever allow certain other posters to express a criticism of PlusNet without attacking their motives and their fitness to be here. The price of 'peace & harmony' laid down by that faction appears to be that PlusNet criticism by non-customers should cease.

To me, that is not a price that is worth entertaining for as much as a nanosecond.

Some of that faction have been making similar attacks on the integrity of PlusNet critics, even in the PN portal forum, for several years now. Therefore, the possibility that they might change their ways in response to rsharma's post seemed remote to me, based on all current and past form. Some of them also seem to believe that certain of the more vocal PlusNet critics have an ulterior motive for posting, other than to help customers and potential customers, and that prejudicial view invariably colours their own contributions. I do not know of any ulterior motives and there has certainly been no evidence of any. But they will inevitably continue to hold that view as long as certain posters comment or criticise.

That amounts to an impasse and my pragmatic supplementary proposal for at least partially clearing the air was simply not to engage in discussion with anyone who seems intent on mounting personal attacks, de-railing debates and/or anything else which causes heat.

Simon

Will you pay AG court cost when they are sued by the ISP's?

What you are asking is for YOUR opinions to be posted which may not be those of the majority of customers.