"I would have been half tempted to include more right at the outset but I think that would have a side effect of letting PN off the hook on things they should be taken to task with."


So it is a very one sided view! Leaving the "pro" but getting rid of the "anti".

I can understand you point of view Seb, however you say:

"but I think that would have a side effect of letting PN off the hook on things they should be taken to task with. "

The problem is now, no one knows what is and not acceptable.

You know as well as anybody, that things do get heated in this forum, and as long as things are not personal or rude etc, *should* be allowed.

However, we have now seen a person made an example of, and no one now knows where they stand on your statement above. I appreciate that you cannot give 100% clear guidelines of what is and not acceptable, but people will now be afraid of standing up to people like Plusnet on here for fear of being forcibly removed, hence completely letting Plusnet off from being taken to task with.

Yes things have been bad in the past, however that was not just the posters on here, that was the staff of Plusnet as well, thing is, they were always allowed to get away with it.

Things have now moved on, and I respectfully ask that you review the 3 month BAN to maybe 2 weeks. This still enforces your intentions, especially to Simon.

Thank you for answering personnally Seb, it is appreciated.

Edited by soundsystem (Wed 09-May-07 21:49:07)

I agree a two week ban would IMO be fairer.

Good move!, Simon's contribution in the last thread he posted in was unacceptable!, calling "Liar" repeatedly without any proof and his other speculative assumptions.
He'd had enough warnings and it couldn't keep happening month after month, especially now PlusNet are improving in leaps and bounds now.

"but PN have stated that retentions agents don't get any form of bonus or PRP for retentions calls so they have no reason to say "ADSL2+ is slower than vanilla ADSL".

Plusnet did not say that agents don't get a bonus, what they said was...

In the past there was a performance based bonus, but that was changed a long time ago.

http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=plusnet&Number=2994131

Changed, not ended, scrapped, finished, done away with.

Plusnet, please feel free to correct me and state that they don't give a bonus.

The banning of Pr is crazy, he has been proven right on many occasions.
In my opinion Plusnet are only getting their house in order after being bought by BT.

"He'd had enough warnings and it couldn't keep happening month after month"

Can you post the "proof" please to your statement. (In the intrest of fairness).

There is no CSC performance bonus. Pay structure used to be part salary and part bonus, it is now salary only and no bonus.

Hi
I did ask the question in the thread Plusnet to Be

"Does anyone know. or willing to say! if PN retention reps are on commission if they get someone to stay?"


the reply I got from mand_beckett was

"I can categorically say that they are not.

The retentions team are existing CSC agents, who have volunteered/been requested to work one of the retentions workflows."

In recent years, this site, and this forum in particular, has been of massive service to PlusNet customers and potential customers, giving air to very valid points about the business practices of this ISP which would otherwise have gone by without being acknowledged. I was always very impressed by ADSLG, its impartiality and the public benefit it brought.

This decision trashes that reputation and it is not one which will be won back easily.

It also means that from now on anyone that posts true statements here which don't chime with the pro-PN tune will be highly uncertain as to whether their post will be deemed acceptable by the owners of this site, even if it is valid, on topic and sticks within the rules (which, in my view, pr100's posts typically complied with.)

All this while the PN spin machine trots out the same old same old with its selective memories, tired statements about "time to move on" and generally putting forward it's latest gloss on past and present legitimate customer concerns, roared on by a fervent fanclub.

If posters who are as articulate, relevant and incisive as Simon are not wanted here, then it is not just your loss, but the a significant loss to anyone trying to research or discuss one of the UK's most controversial ISPs and its poor business practices.

It's your site, so do what you want with it, but poor decisions such as this significantly and irrepairably reduce the level of its public good.

Having just read this entire thread I'm not quite sure what to make of it.. Yes I expected the reaction we've seen from several of the pro- and anti-PN people (sorry for labelling here but it's pretty much spot on.. both sides..) But I'm used to us being on the sharp end of the stick from one side or another so this was no surprise..

What I'm not sure of is where the line is between concern over censorship and moderation policies, and what I can only describe as a religious approach to a particular cause.. I'm not trying to undermine concern some people have expressed (yes we do listen).. I'm actually thinking that I think this particular approach probably won't work because I think some individuals will seek to 'fill the shoes' so to speak perhaps with even more vigour, which may make the problem worse..

I have spent a disproportionate amount of time dealing with PN over the last year.. (and everyone who thinks they know what this means is probably totally off) and I know my colleagues have too.. The one thing that I think this has shown me, and I think this is particularly in the last few weeks, is I think PN are changing.. My concern is, I think some individuals in this forum are hell bent on revenge they can't see beyond this... and that's just going to make the forum a game they need to exercise their need for aggression.. I think this attitude is no different to the ISP fanatics (the term I think I first coined with Icarus over a pint) or 'fanboys' as many people call them who are so religiously pro- their ISP they are blind as to any criticism.

I don't think PN have 'been fixed' yet by any means.. and I might upset PN by saying this (hell.. wouldn't be the first time..) but I think they haven't taken everyone inside the company on board in this change.. I would like to see people give them a chance.. I think some people are doing so.. I think others aren't.. I hope this decision doesn't 'become' the issue over PN's services.. if that's the case then we will all have lost.

I have one major regret in this.. which is I think this will make it difficult for us to help facilitate the event we've been talking about organising with PN.. and as such I'm sort of having second thoughts about that (because there's no point in us doing it if we are regarded as biased by people who might very well bring what is needed to it (not aimed at any one user alone btw).. It just wouldn't achieve anything.


seb