"However, we have now seen a person made an example of, and no one now knows where they stand on your statement above."

I gave up following The Great PlusNet Debate quite a while back, so forgive me if I'm a bit wide of the mark here, but pr100 wasn't just banned for three months without warning, was he? I'm pretty sure pr100 has had (short) temp bans before, he's had people quite openly asking for him to be banned, and he's talked to the mods about what is and isn't ok.

I think you're stretching things a bit far when you say, "no one knows where they stand."




With regards to TBB being in PlusNet's pocket, I think we all know this isn't true for two reasons:

a) The general consensus seems to be that PlusNet are still pretty poor in several important areas
b) There's a huge crowd of people saying that TBB are getting backhanders from PlusNet

If you were PlusNet, would you pay for those messages to be banded about in the forum? I think not.




And as for the my opinion on the ban, I think it'll do the forum good. Things were getting too 'heavy' and it was making for some terribly boring reading. I'd like to see the forum move away from a campaign ground and back to technical and lighter (i.e. not trying to change the world) policy discussion.

>counted to ten and thought better of it...

That should be your mantra for a while I suggest.

I think that you made a very good decision with "deleted".

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The general consensus seems to be that PlusNet are still pretty poor in several important areas

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I don't believe that is true anymore, I would said average rather than 'pretty poor' now, things are a lot better speed, capacity and support wise in the last few months.

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I'd like to see the forum move away from a campaign ground and back to technical and lighter (i.e. not trying to change the world) policy discussion

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That would be good, 3 months of talking about the current service, the impact of the new products, service failures and helping people, errrr like me!, with their problems issues. I think there are only about 100 active users on this forum (I think) so I sometimes wonder if the 'general consensus' is a true reflection of plusnet (that was something PR100 wanted to see funny enough, but I thought it was never going to happen), perhaps if we get a less combatant forum it will attract more plusnet customers to improve the consensus

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In reply to:

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The general consensus seems to be that PlusNet are still pretty poor in several important areas

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I don't believe that is true anymore, I would said average rather than 'pretty poor' now, things are a lot better speed, capacity and support wise in the last few months.

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It may well still be true that we have nasty issues lurking - it's really difficult to know for sure. Things certainly feel like they are on the up over here, but we are nowhere near perfect and still a way from what we are aiming to be (Which isn't perfect, but is damn good!).

We absolutely need arenas like this one to help us understand what we are still getting wrong and to give us the opportunity to put them right - That's not just AG, but lots of different sources, because we cater to lots of different types of people (Many who don't use forums and some who have chosen to stop using this forum).

I very much hope we will have some threads in this forum which complement all our other sources with the wider perspective that AG participants can provide. Getting a better understand of what important areas people think are poor, and then openly and constructively debating what is needed to make those areas unpoor is how I remember this forum 'back in the day'.

Oh, and for the record, personally, I don't mind who raises an issue if it is a valid issue. I accept now that I never should have cared about this and it was a mistake to let myself get dragged into the personalities side of things. If it's a genuine problem then I'm sure we all want to do everything we can to solve it. End of story.
I will confess my own frustration in the past over cases where it felt to me like people were repeating points being made elsewhere and then taking the credit when we solved them. I do apologise to the whole group for that, especially given that I'm the only one of us who is getting paid to be here!

Regards,

Ian

"Getting a better understand of what important areas people think are poor, and then openly and constructively debating what is needed to make those areas unpoor is how I remember this forum 'back in the day'. "

Indeed but back in the day, PN were more than highly regarded, The problem on these forums have always started with people like yourself, spinning, covering up, not doing what they promised and on your admission indulging in personal attacks. The forums improve as PN improves and go down as they do.

Interesting that just before this prejudiced onslaught on one member, there was thread saying no posts for the last 24 hours. If the mods here had the sense they were born with and left this alone for another month, then if PN had continued improving I think everything would have died down. Until PN decided that it was time to spin and mislead again, if that be the case and some of us cynics believe so.

Instead, as I think you Ian would be willing to admit, TBB (er AG did go several months ago, please catch up) have executed one of the people who have most enabled some of the changes to take place by being meticulous in discovering weaknesses. But if that is wrong words in your mouth I am sure you will say so. They have also soured their relationship with what seems like many long standing posters here and not all pr100 fans. That's more than a shame its a crime. As someone else on here has said this is not a back street BB board, but one of the foremost sites, but it now seems to have gone the way PN did and I am sure they now know that it takes not a lot to lose a reputation and a hell of a lot more to regain one, if one ever truly can. Like, would I ever really trust Pn again? I doubt it.

Here we are again,

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They have also soured their relationship with what seems like many long standing posters here and not all pr100 fans

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Who are these people ?

amazing spin being put on this exclusion.... I thought spin was detested in this forum.

presumably following the logic above... if a number of pro-pn posters had been banned this would be the bestest, most impartial BB ever.....

Totally agree.

It's not always the overtly offensive posts that are the biggest problem (people can easliy see them for what they are).

It's those posts that hint or imply things, that the poster knows will incite a flame-war, yet when challenged, they say: "But I never said that".

T.

Hi Rogn,

I'm very concious that I shouldn't comment too much on this, especially as Simon should be involved if we are going to discuss the effectiveness of all the input over the last two years. Perhaps we should wait three months therefore to discuss this much further.

In terms of whether I believe PR100 was one of the "people who have most enabled some of the changes to take place by being meticulous in discovering weaknesses.", I honestly don't believe that to be the case. I'd be very happy to explain why and I'm not for one second saying that Simon didn't post a lot of valid points, because it is very clear that he did. That implies though that we ignored the same feedback we were getting from many other sources - Customers in forums, PUG, cancellation surveys, support feedback, market research and our own common sense and sense of fair play to name a few. For one person to take or be given credit for anything like this, for me, just shows the power an effective PR campaign, lead by a PR professional, can have.

I don't want to re-open old wounds here, and I will offer my apology to Simon, especially if it was me and my accusation that had wound him up to continue his posts here in the way that they ended up. I certainly believe there was a lack of substance in the last accusation(s) made against us, but I also understand that some people will always believe that all 230 people who work at PlusNet are either dishonest, or trained to be so, and I don't imagine for a second that view can be changed with those who hold it.

I think the time to do any real reflection is not now, when there are still fast running emotions and more importantly, genuine outstanding issues affecting our customers which we (I anyway) should be concentrating on finding solutions for.

Ian

>That implies though that we ignored the same feedback we were getting from many other sources - Customers in forums, PUG, cancellation surveys, support feedback, market research and our own common sense and sense of fair play to name a few.

Not to put too fine a point on it - you did do exactly that.