The question was, "Any chance of a refund for those that pay more for longer because they don't read forums"?

We'll be emailing them so that's not an issue (forum goers will get a few days headstart is all).

I'll take that as a no.

In reply to a post by wingco1:

I'll take that as a no.

In reply to a post by mand_beckett:

In reply to a post by camieabz:

I accept that billing systems can be complex, and development schedules etc...will I get my discounts back-dated in June

We won't be backdating payments as part of the process, though you can raise a ticket rather than waiting 'til June.

Or you could try reading?

Rob

We won't be backdating payments as part of the process, though you can raise a ticket rather than waiting 'til June.

In which case my question regarding a refund is valid.

Have the other ISPs who charge different rates depending on which market the exchange is in already implemented the market changes and have they backdated (and given refunds where appropriate) to when the designations were changed?

While I don't care for non-Plusnet customers taking Plusnet to task when it hardly matters to them, I don't much care for the 'if other ISPs don't do it, why should we?' argument.

What's more, it all gets away from the point. There are some customers who have been paying more, simply because the competition does not exist. Now that it does, BT is forced to bow to the market, rather than give the same service for the same price in the first place.

In other words, these exchanges are now magically affordable at a market 3 price, whereas before they were magically unaffordable at market 3 prices. When Plusnet have been pressed on why there's a delay, we are told that it's their 'complex billing system' and developments etc. Shafted, in other words. The market 1 & 2 customers have been funding this complex system. Why? They have been funding others' less expensive, but faster broadband. Why? I've seen my 21CN date (originally Q4 2009 iirc) come and go. No fibre. No ADSL2+. Why? No competition on the exchange.

It's criminal that BT can get away with this, and it's worse that people with a fast connection at £30 tell others that they (the city folk) will be subsidising them. Hardly. Not when the price is 1.25 to 2 times more in markets 1 & 2. Some folks' speeds are such that many customers couldn't download to the 60GB limit in a month, and pay more due to the market.

I have no doubt that the people at Plusnet do a great job when things are working. My concerns are that when they don't work, systems and strategies are blamed. ???

If my plumber blames his car for my excessive bill, do I pay? The difference is that ISPs are semi-utility companies now, and as such, these 'complex systems' do not benefit disgruntled customers, who may want to leave out of principle, but by and large are satisfied with their service.

I guess I'll keep getting shafted for now, but I'll bump a few threads here and there, reminding Plusnet of outstanding issues I have (such as a ticket sitting at 73.5 hrs without a response), high pings on almost all PN's hops on a trace and so on. A fiver a month is nothing to most people, but it's not BT's or Plusnet's fiver.

The thing that bother me the most? The PN staff are very helpful when they know what's happening, but quite the opposite otherwise. I've the BTw - Plusnet - BTw tennis ball. I've had a home move messed up (corrected and appreciated after the fact). CGI servers were atrocious, so I will never rely on Plusnet for any forum-based service. Ok, so PN's packages are competitive, but it's not worth it if all the trimmings are failing to work. If I blamed a complex billing system and told my customers it's their cost...how long would my business last?

Oh and...Plusnet...when are you going to increase the Pro usage allowance to 30GB? The average website has quintupled since 2003 (according to a 2009 report), and has grown more since. How can a premium service really exist on 20GB usage? My usage is generally web only and said usage is 20+ GB. If you want me to upgrade (per the market re-classification), then make it viable.

You are targetting the wrong people. I believe OFCOM enforce higher BT prices on Market 1/2 exchanges to ensure that LLU providers could have a chance of making a profit if they were to unbundle. This requirement is removed on Market 3 to allow BT the chance to compete better with LLU in those places.

So, blame OFCOM for the disparity. It is also OFCOM that define what the markets are. BT are just acting as a sensible private company working within a legislative framework that only targets them (not even Virgin who have a significant market share of their own).

In reply to a post by camieabz:

In other words, these exchanges are now magically affordable at a market 3 price, whereas before they were magically unaffordable at market 3 prices. When Plusnet have been pressed on why there's a delay, we are told that it's their 'complex billing system' and developments etc. Shafted, in other words. The market 1 & 2 customers have been funding this complex system. Why? They have been funding others' less expensive, but faster broadband. Why? I've seen my 21CN date (originally Q4 2009 iirc) come and go. No fibre. No ADSL2+. Why? No competition on the exchange.

I think shafted is a little harsh. We have introduced the new pricing for new signups and account changes immediately (that's a fairly simple change in our system), We're working on automatically changing affected customers pricing, and have offered a manual process to get the new price immediately. We've advertised that fact here and on Community and will be emailing all affected customers to highlight this.

In reply to a post by camieabz:

It's criminal that BT can get away with this, and it's worse that people with a fast connection at £30 tell others that they (the city folk) will be subsidising them. Hardly. Not when the price is 1.25 to 2 times more in markets 1 & 2. Some folks' speeds are such that many customers couldn't download to the 60GB limit in a month, and pay more due to the market.

Market 1 and 2 customers with Plusnet don't subsidise everyone else. We pay higher wholesale costs on those lines, so charge more.

It may interest you to know there's another Ofcom consultation regarding stimulating investment in Market 1 by lowering the wholesale price that can be charged for 20CN lines (in theory encouraging 21CN progress). Whether that's the right solution I'm not convinced.

In reply to a post by camieabz:

I have no doubt that the people at Plusnet do a great job when things are working. My concerns are that when they don't work, systems and strategies are blamed. ???

This is not about blame. We've given you the reasons behind the delay in changing pricing automatically.

In reply to a post by camieabz:

I guess I'll keep getting shafted for now, but I'll bump a few threads here and there, reminding Plusnet of outstanding issues I have (such as a ticket sitting at 73.5 hrs without a response), high pings on almost all PN's hops on a trace and so on.

If you want to give me a ticket number I'll happily take a look for you.

In reply to a post by camieabz:

Oh and...Plusnet...when are you going to increase the Pro usage allowance to 30GB? The average website has quintupled since 2003 (according to a 2009 report), and has grown more since. How can a premium service really exist on 20GB usage? My usage is generally web only and said usage is 20+ GB. If you want me to upgrade (per the market re-classification), then make it viable.

If your usage is mainly web, maybe Extra would be worth a look as performance for web traffic will be the same.

In reply to a post by ian72:

You are targetting the wrong people. I believe OFCOM enforce higher BT prices on Market 1/2 exchanges to ensure that LLU providers could have a chance of making a profit if they were to unbundle. This requirement is removed on Market 3 to allow BT the chance to compete better with LLU in those places.

So, blame OFCOM for the disparity. It is also OFCOM that define what the markets are. BT are just acting as a sensible private company working within a legislative framework that only targets them (not even Virgin who have a significant market share of their own).

Yep, this is all under Ofcom control.

Obviously we choose to apply market based pricing to our products.