In reply to a post by professor973:

Rubbish - TT unbundled our exchange a year ago and still Market 1.

Not rubbish, the vast majority of exchanges Talktalk have unbundled are at least Market 2.

I see your logic in your difference of opinion with Oliver, but for the benefit of many who may not be aware how Market Classification works, (we frequently get posters here thinking that their Plusnet price will go down whan the first LLU supplier enters their exchange), it's as follows:-

Although the Market Status was originally based on the number of ISPs present in an exchange, with BT Wholesale counting as one, (in other words CPs who have a DSLAM there), this criterion was merely the basis for the Classification Lists issued by OfCom.

This relationship has not been maintained. Any exchanges that LLU suppliers have moved into since the last OfCom list issued in December 2010 have not been reclassified.

As the charges by Openreach to ISPs are determined by the OfCom list, not by the number of LLU suppliers present, the ISPs have little choice than to price according to that list.

I believe in fact that Openreach charges are the same for Market 1 and Market 2. That only Market 3 is lower priced.

So far as I know Plusnet are the only ISP to charge less to Market 3 customers. A while ago, they extended this lower charging to Market 2 customers. I am not aware of any change to what they themselves pay, but perhaps there was.

The issue about which this thread originated is that Plusnet did not automatically advise M2 customers when this extension of M3 pricing to M2 areas was inaugurated. My view is that this failure is reprehensible.

The non-reclassification by OfCom is a complete illogicality.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 12-Oct-12 22:31:38)

In reply to a post by professor973:

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

In reply to a post by martinsq:

I would be happy to talk to them how Ofcom's stupid market classification has cost me (and many thousends others) lot of money.

If Ofcom de-regulated Market 1 exchanges you'd be paying more money, not less. BT Wholesale has no reason to keep their prices reasonable in areas where they have no competition.

Rather than blaming Ofcom, it's fairer to criticise O2, Talktalk and Sky for not considering your exchange economically viable. Competition is what drives prices down.

Rubbish - TT unbundled our exchange a year ago and still Market 1.

The principle is sound - when O2, TalkTalk, Sky (or others, but those are the main 3) roll out service at an exchange, then the exchange will meet the criteria for becoming market 2 (or market 3, if more than 1 does so).

However, it is the detail in practice where this falls down. Ofcom sets the definition. Unfortunately it only builds the list every few years. Inbetween those dates, the list stays static.

The last update was at the end of 2010 - and can be found on the Ofcom website. It includes a CSV list of all exchange classifications - and shows that nearly 350 stopped being considered market 1.

Although the list is static, it did take into account plans that the various companies had at the time.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I believe in fact that Openreach charges are the same for Market 1 and Market 2. That only Market 3 is lower priced.

Didn't Ofcom do a funny thing last year, where they demanded BT drop the wholesale price of market 1 connections (some N% below inflation, year-on-year) - but only where they were 20CN?

I think there were a few reasons behind it - one of which is presumably to get ISPs to reduce the price for market 1 customers, but another is to "help" BT decide it is worth rolling out ADSL2+.

Perhaps now it has helped them to decide to roll fibre instead!

You could be right. Something stirs in the deep recesses.

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

Didn't Ofcom do a funny thing last year, where they demanded BT drop the wholesale price of market 1 connections (some N% below inflation, year-on-year) - but only where they were 20CN?

Perhaps it's because ADSL original is universal at ADSL enabled exchanges, and as such should be price protected, whereas ADSL2+ can be offered by ISPs too, but at a premium to the consumer. It's probably for this reason that e.g. O2 offer up to 8 meg on non-LLU exchanges, as 24 meg would be more costly for them to provision without Ofcom's price controls.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The issue about which this thread originated is that Plusnet did not automatically advise M2 customers when this extension of M3 pricing to M2 areas was inaugurated. My view is that this failure is reprehensible.

It goes further than that. There are people who signed up some years ago when the exchange was Market 1 and the designation changed at the last OFCOM review but Plusnet have not advised them.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The issue about which this thread originated is that Plusnet did not automatically advise M2 customers when this extension of M3 pricing to M2 areas was inaugurated. My view is that this failure is reprehensible.

But you didn't consider that it was malfeasance, according to one of your original posts on this subject - http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/plusnet/t/4023223-r...

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

Didn't Ofcom do a funny thing last year, where they demanded BT drop the wholesale price of market 1 connections (some N% below inflation, year-on-year) - but only where they were 20CN?

Yes, precisely.
No sign of any reduction being passed on, NO sign of 21CN coming here this Century !
No LLU, not now, not ever.
We had ADSL Max in March 2006, nothing has changed since.
Thats why I say we are Ofcom's Market 1 victims.

Regards,
Martin

So did it happen, Andrew? Anyone from here?