Nasty ground. I expect technically they could claim the two contracts are separate.

However I think you can probably follow the line that the broadband is discounted because you have Plusnet line rental, so the contracts are linked. If you have the right to cancel the line you should be able to cancel the broadband as well, as the 24-month option you took was a bundle, not individual contracts.

Putting another way, if you hadn't taken LRS, could you cancel line and broadband? I expect so. The LRS is irrelevant except that if you left immediately you wouldn't get a part-refund.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Putting another way, if you hadn't taken LRS, could you cancel line and broadband? I expect so.

It's mandated by Ofcom.

LRS quite possibly is being used by ISPs to tie people in to an ISP in the event of broadband price increases, because as far as I know Ofcom does not mandate line rental upfront payments to be refunded in the event of a broadband price increase. Of course the contract can be terminated if the customer is ok with losing the line rental they have paid in advance.

Essentially, part of the reason for the LRS discount over pay monthly, with ISPs who do not part-refund LRS, is down to the customer is losing the ability to switch "penalty" free in the event of a broadband price increase.

Pay monthly is always the safer option when it comes to being protected from broadband price increases, and LRS discounts are generally being slashed anyway.

Edited by Oliver341 (Tue 07-Jul-15 18:25:32)

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Putting another way, if you hadn't taken LRS, could you cancel line and broadband? I expect so.

Pay monthly is always the safer option when it comes to being protected from broadband price increases, and LRS discounts are generally being slashed anyway.

LRS is a dead duck now, the discount being pitiful

Certainly seems BT are trying to remove every conceiveable way of paying a reasonable sum for a physical landline. That's a 19% rise this year, following on from an 18% rise this time last year.

But what's their endgame?

Force everyone onto cable and abandon the copper network altogether?

It seems ultimately counterproductive - sooner or later highspeed mobile-network-based solutions like Relish will fill the void. The fixed landline network was BT's main quasi-monopolistic advantage, and at the moment price is its main selling point - if they continue to make it less and less cost-effective, they're cutting away their own ground.

Or have they accepted that, and have no wider vision than just to squeeze the last revenue they can out of it?

As another possiblity, I notice I'm entitled to take out line rental with another provider if I pay a £2.50/month surcharge.

Given that Direct Save are currently offering an annual LRS of £132, that works out £23.88 cheaper over the year, even with the surcharge...

In reply to a post by gordon_k:

Certainly seems BT are trying to remove every conceiveable way of paying a reasonable sum for a physical landline. That's a 19% rise this year, following on from an 18% rise this time last year.

But what's their endgame?

It's not really "BT" as such, since BT aren't the only retail provider of line rental. Openreach are charging £8.95 inc vat for WLR3. BT Retail obviously charge a lot more than this for line rental, but they aren't the only ones.

Edited by Oliver341 (Wed 08-Jul-15 11:46:11)

True, but I do see BT as responsible for the issue at hand - i.e. PlusNet's 41% increase in annual line rental over the past 12 months.

The real problem is ineffective regulatory controls. I give you Ofcom, 11 July 2013 -

Telephone and broadband customers could see lower prices as a result of changes to wholesale charges proposed by Ofcom today.
The proposals relate to prices that Openreach, BT's network access division, can charge other telecoms providers for some of its main wholesale services.
These prices have historically been regulated by Ofcom because BT has been found to have 'significant market power' in the delivery of these services. Last week Ofcom published the consultation, which found this still to be the case.

As a result, Ofcom is proposing revised 'charge controls' on some Openreach products. These controls would reduce wholesale charges, which could be expected to lead to real-terms price reductions for consumers, as communications providers pass on savings to their landline and broadband customers."

...

Ofcom is consulting on the following charge controls on annual rental charges which would come into effect on 1 April 2014 and run until 31 March 2017:
� Fully unbundled lines: the regulated wholesale price for this service today is £84.26 per year. Under Ofcom's proposals this will fall in real terms by between CPI - 0% and CPI - 6% every year;
� Shared unbundled lines: the regulated wholesale price today is £9.75 per year. Under Ofcom's proposals this will fall in real terms by between CPI - 8% and CPI - 12% every year;
� Wholesale line rental: the regulated wholesale price today is £93.27 per year. Under Ofcom's proposals this will fall in real terms by between CPI - 2% and CPI - 8% every year.

So Ofcom's proposed wholesale price reductions of between 2% and 8% every year, have translated to retail rises of between 18% and 19% every year.

LMAO! - talk about the reality not matching the hype...

In reply to a post by gordon_k:

True, but I do see BT as responsible for the issue at hand - i.e. PlusNet's 41% increase in annual line rental over the past 12 months.

But BT do not have a retail monopoly, so your post should have been directed to all retail ISPs for over-inflating line rental, not just BT. BT Retail & Plusnet could double their line rental next month and there would still be plenty of cheaper alternatives available.

Edited by Oliver341 (Wed 08-Jul-15 12:40:19)

Sadly ofcom have clearly failed here. There is a political belief that competition always works and is the solution for everything, this is the guidelines ofcom operate under. Even more telling is although its really obvious the regulation has failed, ofcom have just sat silent.

Ofgem are in a similar mess, they are proposing increasing competition to fix electric/gas prices, its as if the only tools for these people is to increase competition.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

Sadly ofcom have clearly failed here.

Ofcom have only failed if they haven't done something which is within their power. Imposing price restrictions on private companies operating within a competitive market goes way beyond what Ofcom have powers to do.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

There is a political belief that competition always works and is the solution for everything, this is the guidelines ofcom operate under.

So your criticism is more about the capitalism, competitive markets, and their effectiveness to reduce prices rather than Ofcom.