Am I on ADSL, or ADSL2+....?

Hi all,

You can read the thread detailing my first attempt at fixing this snag with Sky here.

I was getting a steady 4mbps from Sky, despite all my line stats pointing towards 7-8mbps being feasible. I contacted support and asked to be set to a gaming profile, which gained me 0.5mbps at the expense of half my upload sync speed. The tier 2 support guy also kindly said he'd send out an Openreach engineer just in case.

When the Openreach engineer got here, he said straight away after plugging his kit in that the problem was I was on regular ADSL, not ADSL2+. He said it's not uncommon; while Sky have their equipment in our exchange, I wasn't the first household he'd seen where my Sky connection was still being routed through the BT equipment.

Has anyone heard of this before? Despite the sync speeds being broadly similar to my old regular ADSL connection, when I saw upstream syncs of 900kbps and 768kbps I assumed I must be on ADSL2+?

I called support back, who first told me that I *was* on ADSL2, and there must be some other reason for the slow speed.

After contacting their Customer Solutions people, he then took me off hold and explained that the "Sky Voice and Broadband Network" in my area was oversubscribed, and therefore I couldn't be migrated across to ADSL2.

Anyone got any advice on how to follow this up? I'm not terribly happy with being told I'll get ADSL2 only to, well, not get it without anyone even telling me. Plus, the numerous excuses, plus people on the phone claiming I'm ADSL2 when an engineer in front of me proves I'm not make me think I might be getting the run around a bit.

What should I do now?

Edited by deleted (Sat 11-Jun-11 22:24:56)

In reply to a post by Elmlea:

Hi all,

I was getting a steady 4mbps from Sky, despite all my line stats pointing towards 7-8mbps being feasible. I contacted support and asked to be set to a gaming profile, which gained me 0.5mbps at the expense of half my upload sync speed. The tier 2 support guy also kindly said he'd send out an Openreach engineer just in case.

When the Openreach engineer got here, he said straight away after plugging his kit in that the problem was I was on regular ADSL, not ADSL2+. He said it's not uncommon; while Sky have their equipment in our exchange, I wasn't the first household he'd seen where my Sky connection was still being routed through the BT equipment.

Has anyone heard of this before? Despite the sync speeds being broadly similar to my old regular ADSL connection, when I saw upstream syncs of 900kbps and 768kbps I assumed I must be on ADSL2+?

I called support back, who first told me that I *was* on ADSL2, and there must be some other reason for the slow speed.

After contacting their Customer Solutions people, he then took me off hold and explained that the "Sky Voice and Broadband Network" in my area was oversubscribed, and therefore I couldn't be migrated across to ADSL2.

Anyone got any advice on how to follow this up? I'm not terribly happy with being told I'll get ADSL2 only to, well, not get it without anyone even telling me. Plus, the numerous excuses, plus people on the phone claiming I'm ADSL2 when an engineer in front of me proves I'm not make me think I might be getting the run around a bit.

What should I do now?

Post your full line stats reported by your router.
What router do you have?

Your router will quickly confirm if you're on ADSL (G.992.1) or ADSL2+ (G.992.5)

I'm using Sky's Sagem 2304N, which disappointingly won't report the G992.X details to me. I might try and stick on my spare router briefly and check that though...

Stats right now are:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 5220 kbps 412 kbps
Line Attenuation 46.5 dB 27.6 dB
Noise Margin 6.1 dB 16.6 dB

In reply to a post by Elmlea:

I'm using Sky's Sagem 2304N, which disappointingly won't report the G992.X details to me. I might try and stick on my spare router briefly and check that though...

Stats right now are:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 5220 kbps 412 kbps
Line Attenuation 46.5 dB 27.6 dB
Noise Margin 6.1 dB 16.6 dB

Sorry, I didn't realise you were cross-posting across the forums. Forget it.

Apologies, had no idea that wasn't allowed. Is this more a technical issue, or a Sky issue? I'm now leaning to the latter, so I'll stop the technical thread and link to it here instead.

In reply to a post by Elmlea:

Apologies, had no idea that wasn't allowed. Is this more a technical issue, or a Sky issue? I'm now leaning to the latter, so I'll stop the technical thread and link to it here instead.

All your questions have already been answered in the other thread. I suggest you stick with that one

You may be be better off as you are. From the reading up I did the exchanges which are over subscribed get major slowdown at peak time there are lists on the forums which ones they are. If that is one of yours then if you are getting stable speeds you might be better staying there?

Cheers Nicky, I'll look for this list and see if my exchange is one of them.

Thing is, if my peak speeds leap by almost 100%, then maybe even with some serious slowdown I'll still be better off? I mean, 8mbps most of the time sometimes slowing to 2.5 or 3mbps is maybe better than just 4mbps all the time?

If you come across the thread you mentioned before I do, any chance you could post a link?

In reply to a post by Elmlea:

Connection Speed 5220 kbps

Well you're either on ADSL2 or ADSL2+.
The trick is to divide the connection speed by 32, if the result is an integer you can be almost 100% certain you're on ADSL1. If the result is not an integer you are on something which can connect in smaller step sizes than 32kbps (ADSL2/2+).

After a long time with tech support, they've now confirmed I *am* on ADSL2+ and the chat about things being oversubscribed was nonsense.

However, they're telling me I have 46dB attenuation and a line length of a smidge over 2km. They've got my line set to 10mbps, but it's only syncing at 5mbps "because of this line length."

Seems odd to me again; surely a longer line would just result in increased attenuation, and if the signal attenuation's at a certain level and the line's clean without too much noise, you should get a speed based on that?

Perhaps the 5mbps cap I have now (according to MySky) is left over from when I was on G.dmt?

The problem is the noise on your line

Noise Margin 6.1 dB

All phone devices must be filtered, including the sky box.

You should get your stats from the test socket behind the master, with *nothing* else connected and see what happens to the noise figure.

Do you have a test socket?

I do; those stats are from the test socket with nothing else connected.

Todays stats, from the test socket but with the phone connected, are:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 4916 kbps 796 kbps
Line Attenuation 45.5 dB 27.4 dB
Noise Margin 7.0 dB 13.8 dB

Edited by deleted (Sun 12-Jun-11 14:16:48)

5220kbps would be an unusual cap (and I don't think you're on a cap) as it's not really a natural step (it's more than 5Mbps but less than 5.5Mbps and I'd assume any implemented steps would go 0.5, 1, 1.5, etc).

I suggest you try the usual DIY checks as your line should do more than 5220kbps at the 6dB margin (but not that much more - I'd expect somewhere around 7 to 9Mbps).
Try the 'test' socket (INSIDE your BT master socket) to rule out any internal wiring "issues" and post your stats again.

You are correct about the line speed being determined by the noise (your modem & exchange will attempt to sync with the highest possible number of 'tones' which can meet the 6dB target margin).
However the line attenuation also plays a part (the modem won't say "OK; the attenuation is xx so I'll connect at yy") as the higher frequencies (and thus the higher speeds) will not make it through.

If you were being capped (at 5220kbps) you would almost certainly see a higher downstream margin.
The fact it's at 6dB tends to imply your modem has selected the sync speed based on the noise level rather than being forced to connect no higher than 5220kbps.

5220kbps certainly won't be a cap left over from G.dmt (aka ADSL1) as 5220kbps is an impossible connection speed for that modulation (5216kbps is a possible G.dmt sync, as is 5248kbps; but it can't go in between).

In reply to a post by Elmlea:

I do; those stats are from the test socket with nothing else connected.

Then you have a noisy line and there's nothing you can do about it (unless you get hissing or crackling on the phone line).

From the test socket with nothing else connected:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 4898 kbps 796 kbps
Line Attenuation 46.0 dB 27.4 dB
Noise Margin 7.4 dB 14.0 dB

From Sky's site:

Download Speed
Your connection has been set to a download speed of up to
4.9Mb (5024Kb)
Upload Speed
Your connection has been set to an upload speed of up to
0.8Mb (800Kb)

It was the "connection has been set to" bit that made me think it might be capped. Also, there's a lot of space left upstream before it's anywhere near 7dB noise margin, so at least I could expect an improved upload?

The fact your download and upload connection speeds are jumping about all over the place lends me to believe you have a line fault (possibly just a dodgy joint somewhere between your master socket and Sky's equipment in the exchange).

The "set to" part (I think you mentioned 10Mbps) may just be a measure by Sky to reduce connection issues on longer lines (if they've capped you at 10Mbps). Of course it could equally be number 47 on the list of 'rubbish answers to make you go away' at the call centre!
The thing is you're getting nowhere near that and it's all pointing at a line fault.

A line fault, rather than just an unfortunately noisy line?

I'm not sure why, but at one point they managed to creep the downstream up to a steady 5200kbps, but at the same time the upstream fell to 412kbps. Other than that it's been relatively static.

Presumably that's when they tried g.dmt.

I think Sky are starting to get a little naughty and despite their promise not to over subscribe lines like other providers, they are. If people do not complain, hey great we can out a few more customers on the line. Was upgraded to adsl2+ last Feb, and after a while speed went down to 1.3mb instead of the 5 i was getting. Support guy told me I should only be receiving upto 2mb anyway (yea right...it will be 56k next). When I strarted a little rant about promises and oversubscribing, guy went away (flicked a switch?) and 2 minutes later hey im back at 5mb with a guantee that it will not fall in speed again as he has put a note on it??? A note on what and to not do what exactly?

In reply to a post by rex34:

I think Sky are starting to get a little naughty and despite their promise not to over subscribe lines like other providers, they are. If people do not complain, hey great we can out a few more customers on the line. Was upgraded to adsl2+ last Feb, and after a while speed went down to 1.3mb instead of the 5 i was getting. Support guy told me I should only be receiving upto 2mb anyway (yea right...it will be 56k next). When I strarted a little rant about promises and oversubscribing, guy went away (flicked a switch?) and 2 minutes later hey im back at 5mb with a guantee that it will not fall in speed again as he has put a note on it??? A note on what and to not do what exactly?

Sounds like you've been put onto the gaming profile. DLM should not run on this line now.